Good/bad experiences with Tow Vehicle Syndicates?

On Monday, October 1, 2012 10:50:56 PM UTC-4, Tony V wrote:
On 10/1/2012 10:07 PM, Craig R. wrote: As Tony said, small cars have issues when breaking hard. I know a person who pulled his glider with a Jeep Wrangler and the glider trailer (and glider) ended up rolling sideways down the freeway one afternoon. I have a friend who towed his LS4 behind a Toyota Solara. The LS4 was repairable. Tony

Wrangler certainly wasnt made for highway driving... not to mention highway towing. Pulled several trailers including an open trailered Blanik with a 4 cylinder Honda Accord, automatic. Coast to coast. Never felt that the power was insufficient, transmission was never damagged, rear brakes were going out at the pace of about 15K and gas mileage was horrible. VW Golf/jetta tdi is more than sufficient to do the job and to have the great gas mielage of 40 MPG and the DSG transmission was almost made for this type of activity.

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 4:43:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
VW Golf/jetta tdi is more than sufficient to do the job and to have the great gas mielage of 40 MPG and the DSG transmission was almost made for this type of activity.

I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!) Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..

I believe that "tow ratings" are a game of "chicken" played by the auto marketing departments. Some companies like VW choose not to play. There was no common standard for tow ratings until SAE came up with J2807. Here is a good article on J2807. Toyota is the only company that has implemented the standard.

Here's an interesting article on JS807:
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...t/viewall.html

I don't want to exceed the tow rating for the VW because I think that would make it very easy for my insurance company to welch out of paying a claim should I ever have an accident (also 'lawsuit').

I'm leaning towards getting a decent but fully depreciated "safe tow vehicle". The insurance cost of adding a second vehicle with liability insurance will only cost me $20 a year. Having a "beater" to tow gliders is not a bad way to keep your total costs down in the long run.

On 10/2/2012 8:14 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
The insurance cost of adding a second vehicle with liability
insurance will only cost me $20 a year.

Wow! Having my 1989 Caravan minivan on my insurance is $200/year, only
$50/year cheaper than our 2002 Camry, both for liability only. What
company are you with? Are you the only person on the policy?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:34:24 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 10/2/2012 8:14 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:

The insurance cost of adding a second vehicle with liability

insurance will only cost me $20 a year.



Wow! Having my 1989 Caravan minivan on my insurance is $200/year, only

$50/year cheaper than our 2002 Camry, both for liability only. What

company are you with? Are you the only person on the policy?

Yes. I'm the only person on the policy and in the household. That's the reason it is so low. The logic works thus... I can only drive one car at once. The insurance company benefits when I'm paying for collision insurance on the new car while it sits in the garage and I'm off driving the old tow car that has only liability insurance.

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:14:11 -0700 (PDT), son_of_flubber
wrote:


I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!)
Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..

Hmmmm.... I had a Golf IV Variant in Germany, and it also had that
1.000 lbs limitation - but only if the trailer did not have brakes.

The limit for a trailer with brakes was the mentioned 3.000 lbs limit.


Could you check again if you are reading your car's manual correctly,
please? I find it hard to believe that VW is limiting its cars in such
a drastic way.

On the other hand:
Reading the criteria that seem to make a good tow vehicle in the US
(heavy and a biiiiiiiig engine) I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.000
lbs limitation only is VW's way to get out oif the way of some
over-enthusiastic US lawyers...


Cheers from Germany
Andreas

whose current VW Passat Diesel tows a loaded Duo Discus trailer with
43 mpg at 55 mph, unfortunately for the price of $5.70 per gallon...

Absolutely. The US towing limits for identical cars are invariably lower for no good technical reason. I have a Sportwagen TDI that's good for 3,000 lbs in Germany and 1,000 lbs in the US (if you can actually get VW to put it in writing - it's in a "supplemental" manual that I had to request seperately).


On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:14:11 -0700 (PDT), son_of_flubber

wrote:





I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!)

Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..



Hmmmm.... I had a Golf IV Variant in Germany, and it also had that

1.000 lbs limitation - but only if the trailer did not have brakes.



The limit for a trailer with brakes was the mentioned 3.000 lbs limit.





Could you check again if you are reading your car's manual correctly,

please? I find it hard to believe that VW is limiting its cars in such

a drastic way.



On the other hand:

Reading the criteria that seem to make a good tow vehicle in the US

(heavy and a biiiiiiiig engine) I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.000

lbs limitation only is VW's way to get out oif the way of some

over-enthusiastic US lawyers...





Cheers from Germany

Andreas



whose current VW Passat Diesel tows a loaded Duo Discus trailer with

43 mpg at 55 mph, unfortunately for the price of $5.70 per gallon...

Get a friend who owns a Toyota FJ Cruiser!

We used mine to drag a 2-32 across a bog-like field to get it near enough to the trailer to load up. We needed all of the FJ's compound low and knarly tires to do the job!

Unfortunately, I don't like beer or booze, already had dinner, so had to settle for several "atta-boys".

bumper

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:33:29 PM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Absolutely. The US towing limits for identical cars are invariably lower for no good technical reason. I have a Sportwagen TDI that's good for 3,000 lbs in Germany and 1,000 lbs in the US (if you can actually get VW to put it in writing - it's in a "supplemental" manual that I had to request seperately).





On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Andreas Maurer wrote:

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:14:11 -0700 (PDT), son_of_flubber



wrote:











I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!)



Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..







Hmmmm.... I had a Golf IV Variant in Germany, and it also had that



1.000 lbs limitation - but only if the trailer did not have brakes.







The limit for a trailer with brakes was the mentioned 3.000 lbs limit.











Could you check again if you are reading your car's manual correctly,



please? I find it hard to believe that VW is limiting its cars in such



a drastic way.







On the other hand:



Reading the criteria that seem to make a good tow vehicle in the US



(heavy and a biiiiiiiig engine) I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.000



lbs limitation only is VW's way to get out oif the way of some



over-enthusiastic US lawyers...











Cheers from Germany



Andreas







whose current VW Passat Diesel tows a loaded Duo Discus trailer with



43 mpg at 55 mph, unfortunately for the price of $5.70 per gallon...

Would you have the same disregard for your gliders POH? I would certainly hope not! Tow ratings are set for some VERY good reasons - don't ignore them! Furthermore, they are set with MUCH shorter trailers in mind than glider trailers. I suggest that you Google "trailer towing accidents" before you decide to disregard these limitations.

On the contrary - well maintained modern small cars with sophisticated
suspension make excellent towing vehicles.
For some reason (presumably liability and driving style) manufacturers
lower the tow rating of their vehicles in the USA. The POH where the OP
lives specifies that the vehicle is good for the weight. There is a
relatively low speed limit for these trailers. Not sure which one
applies here - but either 0km/h or 110km/h are the european open road
towing limits. Under these conditions the combination is safe,
convenient, economical and normal practice. It is also a lot less work
to drive.

The massive - un aerodynamic trailer for my 19m single piece wing
Kestrel is a beast. I definitely want to be towing it with my all wheel
drive looong wheelbase Volvo with an "authoritative" 2tons on the
wheels. This has more to do with lousy trailer dynamics than general
towing. This combination has the mass, power and stability to tow the
said trailer at 140km/h if I were insane enough to do so - our freeway
limit is 120km/h and I generally stick to 100-110 - it keeps the
excitement level down.

Towing a decent European trailer with my 15m inside things were much
better with a much smaller car. Easier to drive, more controlled ride,
better aerodynamics on the tow vehicle.

The big heavy car is comparatively clumsy and has its own dynamics that
make it a little less controlled in the suspension area. The absolutely
worst towing experience I ever had was retrieving the 15m with a Jeep
Cherokee. Same combo that was stable and safe at 110km/h behind a
1200kg, 1600cc hatchback became unruly and twitchy. Why? High roll
centre, short wheelbase, off road tyres with lots of lateral distortion
- coupled with a lot of mass = unruly tow vehicle that was yanking the
trailer all over the place.

Never been able to understand the obsession with bigger is better.
Lots of folk tow long distances, very happily and safely with something
like a DSG Jetta - try it - it might be a revelation.

(and yes - I have driven a fair amount in the USA - East coast ,
Colorado mountains, California...)
--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 21:34:46 -0700 (PDT), 2G
wrote:


Would you have the same disregard for your gliders POH? I would certainly hope not! Tow ratings are set for some VERY good reasons - don't ignore them! Furthermore, they are set with MUCH shorter trailers in mind than glider trailers. I suggest that you Google "trailer towing accidents" before you decide to disregard these limitations.


Sorry?
As I mentioned in my posting, the limitations *in Germany* are
1.500/3.000 lbs.
No need to disregard any limitation.

And, no, there a re no further limitations on the length of the
trailer.


Andreas