U.S. glider operations fuel prices

I recently read a a blurb on the SSA home page that claims the following.

High AVGAS prices ($6-$13/gal currently) are hurting aero tow operations.
Ultimately, US soaring will have to adopt fuel efficient winch launch to
keep the sport affordable

Locally here in Ca we currently pay $5.60 per gal 100LL and there is an
airport 20 miles away charging $5.21 per gal. An online search of current
fuel prices shows that throughout the six continental U.S. regions the
average price per gal 100LL is between $5.43 and $5.76. Is anyone aware of
any U.S. fixed glider operations paying $13 per gallon, or for that matter
any fixed operations that are paying in excess of $7?

Using the Pawnee as an example, operating costs are only driven partly
by fuel, if fuel was 12/gal vs 6/gal, tow costs would not double, but
increase by 30-50%.

If you are in Socal, have you explored the non ethanol mogas available
at Petrolock from cleargas? Mogas STC for Pawnee exists as long as no
alcohol in the mix.

I am all for ground launch, but really, clubs are the immediate short
term answer. Joining a club with a nice two seater, one can reduce
your off season and BFR cost significantly by spliting the tow fee.

aerodyne

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:30:04 AM UTC-7, soarin wrote:
I recently read a a blurb on the SSA home page that claims the following.



High AVGAS prices ($6-$13/gal currently) are hurting aero tow operations.

Ultimately, US soaring will have to adopt fuel efficient winch launch to

keep the sport affordable



Locally here in Ca we currently pay $5.60 per gal 100LL and there is an

airport 20 miles away charging $5.21 per gal. An online search of current

fuel prices shows that throughout the six continental U.S. regions the

average price per gal 100LL is between $5.43 and $5.76. Is anyone aware of

any U.S. fixed glider operations paying $13 per gallon, or for that matter

any fixed operations that are paying in excess of $7?

http://www.airnav.com/fuel/report.html

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:12:23 PM UTC-7, aerodyne wrote:
Using the Pawnee as an example, operating costs are only driven partly

by fuel, if fuel was 12/gal vs 6/gal, tow costs would not double, but

increase by 30-50%.



If you are in Socal, have you explored the non ethanol mogas available

at Petrolock from cleargas? Mogas STC for Pawnee exists as long as no

alcohol in the mix.



I am all for ground launch, but really, clubs are the immediate short

term answer. Joining a club with a nice two seater, one can reduce

your off season and BFR cost significantly by spliting the tow fee.



aerodyne

Mogas STC does not apply to the Pawnee D airframe.

Frank Whiteley

On Nov 20, 12:30*pm, Soarin Again wrote:
I recently read a a blurb on the SSA home page that claims the following.

High AVGAS prices ($6-$13/gal currently) are hurting aero tow operations.
Ultimately, US soaring will have to adopt fuel efficient winch launch to
keep the sport affordable


Boy, there is a lot of editorial mixed up with facts there!

Our club flies out of a 1600' runway. Winch would mean buying $1
million or more of land.

Winch means more people. OK, if you have people wiling to work for
free (or not count the actual cost of their time) good for you. If
we're talking about a commercial operation, it's not at all clear that
two more employees at x per hour is cost effective.

John Cochrane

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:23:57 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Nov 20, 12:30*pm, Soarin Again wrote:

I recently read a a blurb on the SSA home page that claims the following.



High AVGAS prices ($6-$13/gal currently) are hurting aero tow operations.

Ultimately, US soaring will have to adopt fuel efficient winch launch to

keep the sport affordable





Boy, there is a lot of editorial mixed up with facts there!



Our club flies out of a 1600' runway. Winch would mean buying $1

million or more of land.



Winch means more people. OK, if you have people wiling to work for

free (or not count the actual cost of their time) good for you. If

we're talking about a commercial operation, it's not at all clear that

two more employees at x per hour is cost effective.



John Cochrane

Sorry, John. With respect, it's your facts are mixed up. Unless you're considering wing-down takeoffs, the minimum winch crew is exactly the same as aero tow - pilot, winch operator, wing runner. The wing runner or winch operator can retrieve the rope. Unlike aero tow, more people can be used effectively with winch launch but they're not absolutely necessary.

As for your airfield, well that's your situation. Others have different situations. And, the economics very much favor the winch.

Oh yes, about airport land. I'll bet way back when the 1600' was bought, someone suggested buying more land for a longer runway. The response was probably, "No way - that would mean buy $5,000 or more of land." Today, that looks like it would have been a bargain. In 50 years, $1 million will look like a bargain.

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:12:23 PM UTC-7, aerodyne wrote:
Using the Pawnee as an example, operating costs are only driven partly

by fuel, if fuel was 12/gal vs 6/gal, tow costs would not double, but

increase by 30-50%.

That's direct fuel cost. The non-fuel costs are also driven by the price of fuel - but indirectly as pass thru.

That's direct fuel cost. *The non-fuel costs are also driven by the price of fuel - but indirectly as pass thru.

OK - so the Pawnee D does not have the STC - what about all the
earlier models made 20 years or so prior? The bulk of the fleet I'd
wager.

Insurance, maintenance, and hanger rent driven proportionaly by fuel
cost? I doubt that. Show me the numbers!

On Nov 20, 2:25*pm, aerodyne wrote:
That's direct fuel cost. *The non-fuel costs are also driven by the price of fuel - but indirectly as pass thru.

OK - so the Pawnee D does not have the STC - what about all the
earlier models made 20 years or so prior? *The bulk of the fleet I'd
wager.

Insurance, maintenance, and hanger rent driven proportionaly by fuel
cost? *I doubt that. *Show me the numbers!

Re Numbers:
Yesterday in NV, mom & pop commercial FBO. One of ths launches in 15kt
wind to 1,900 ft agl, ASK21, two pilots, one winch driver, (busy
grandmother of 12), one $10,000 winch, 28 ounces of premium gas equals
$1 fuel costs. (And who needs a wing runner on a paved runway?) Get
with the program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the
1930's. The little UK still does more flights than we do per airport.
Karen Henderson.