Soaring Community Consumer Warning

On Friday, March 22, 2013 12:49:11 AM UTC-4, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Bob, He does the same thing when customers list gliders on the www.glidersource.com web site. Another soaring community volunteer put a lot of work into the www.glidersource.com web site. It is excellent. The creator of www.glidersource.com is a glider pilot and trying to make a valuable resource available. Tim's site is very valuable resource too, but... Paul Remde

Tim's site is the default place to go to see what is for sale.
The other's a just posers. W&W is where the gliders get sold.
Tim has provided this service for many years and I think this is the first gripe I think I've ever heard.
Those of us that buy and sell sailplanes truely appreciate what he does for us.
Sometimes we might even buy something from him.
Thanks Tim- Keep up the nice work.
UH

Add my voice to that of Hank, Chip, Herb and Mark. Tim has worked hard to make Wings & Wheels THE place to sell gliders, and he does it to try to get more business. Duplicating your ad elsewhere is an attack on his model. If you want the best exposure to sell your glider, swallow your pride and make nice with Tim.

-John, Q3

On 3/22/2013 6:30 AM, John Carlyle wrote:
Add my voice to that of Hank, Chip, Herb and Mark. Tim has worked
hard to make Wings & Wheels THE place to sell gliders, and he does it
to try to get more business. Duplicating your ad elsewhere is an
attack on his model. If you want the best exposure to sell your
glider, swallow your pride and make nice with Tim.

Tim still does not list his requirement the ad for your glider be
exclusively with him. The only requirement I see is this one, written in
red and underlined:

"I only ask that you please send notice when your sailplane, trailer,
airplane or part has been sold or your wanted ad is no longer needed."

Given the lack of warning about Tim's requirements for exclusivity (and
perhaps letting his business interests interfere with his civility), I
suggest he immediately and prominently post those requirements, then
contact BobD with something like this: "My bad for not informing you of
the situation. I'll be glad to repost your ad until you sell your
glider. Please let me know at your convenience."

Should Tim make such an offer, I hope BobD will accept it graciously,
and allow the ad to be reposted.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:01:51 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 3/22/2013 6:30 AM, John Carlyle wrote:

Add my voice to that of Hank, Chip, Herb and Mark. Tim has worked

hard to make Wings & Wheels THE place to sell gliders, and he does it

to try to get more business. Duplicating your ad elsewhere is an

attack on his model. If you want the best exposure to sell your

glider, swallow your pride and make nice with Tim.



Tim still does not list his requirement the ad for your glider be

exclusively with him. The only requirement I see is this one, written in

red and underlined:



"I only ask that you please send notice when your sailplane, trailer,

airplane or part has been sold or your wanted ad is no longer needed."



Given the lack of warning about Tim's requirements for exclusivity (and

perhaps letting his business interests interfere with his civility), I

suggest he immediately and prominently post those requirements, then

contact BobD with something like this: "My bad for not informing you of

the situation. I'll be glad to repost your ad until you sell your

glider. Please let me know at your convenience."



Should Tim make such an offer, I hope BobD will accept it graciously,

and allow the ad to be reposted.



--

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to

email me)

Eric: I would gladly do so.

No Chip, I'm not hitting below the belt. Hanging up on me when I was trying to have an understanding led to this. Trying to sell my glider and NOT informing me before hand until well after I posted on SoaringCafe hurts the entire community in spite of his store offerings and past services. I understand his right to policy, but read Eric's post.

The other's a just posers. W&W is where the gliders get sold.

UH

WOW UH. "The others are just posers"... what an unhealthy position that is for our sport. In case you haven't noticed, this is the United States, where free enterprise competition exists for the benefit of the end-user. Me: I'm just trying to sell my glider and stay vibrant in this sport. What's stupid is Tim asked me when I placed my ad what I was getting. I told him a Jonker JS-1C. 3 months later he comes back to bully me into pulling my "for sale" ad off SoaringCafe instead of saying "Hey Bob, hope your ad on my site is getting you prospects. Keep me in mind for your new glider needs such as panel instruments, waxes etc." Now that won't happen, will it?

Nope--that wasn't the message I got. I got the Soviet Union instead--my way or the highway. Again: Is this how YOU would treat past, loyal customers? Is this how you help the sport prosper? I understand the issue of competition as with my business.

Read the previous post: he does this to others. How detrimental to the sport.

If it's important for you to have your ad on Tim's site - comply with what he offers. It's free, it's his site. You don't like it - go somewhere else. Simple.
But obviously you see the value of having your glider advertised for sale on his site, otherwise you wouldn't make such a fuss...

Originally Posted by BobD

The other's a just posers. W&W is where the gliders get sold.

UH

WOW UH. "The others are just posers"... what an unhealthy position that is for our sport. In case you haven't noticed, this is the United States, where free enterprise competition exists for the benefit of the end-user. Me: I'm just trying to sell my glider and stay vibrant in this sport. What's stupid is Tim asked me when I placed my ad what I was getting. I told him a Jonker JS-1C. 3 months later he comes back to bully me into pulling my "for sale" ad off SoaringCafe instead of saying "Hey Bob, hope your ad on my site is getting you prospects. Keep me in mind for your new glider needs such as panel instruments, waxes etc." Now that won't happen, will it?

Nope--that wasn't the message I got. I got the Soviet Union instead--my way or the highway. Again: Is this how YOU would treat past, loyal customers? Is this how you help the sport prosper? I understand the issue of competition as with my business.

Read the previous post: he does this to others. How detrimental to the sport.

Apparently they feel entitled as potential customers of a free service
to dictate the terms of service, and then be vocal in abusing the
service provider.

And I know this was supposedly triggered by Tim putting the phone down
on the person presuming to do this. The more I see and hear the more I
sympathise with that decision.

On 2013/04/11 5:51 PM, robertsmits wrote:

If it's important for you to have your ad on Tim's site - comply with
what he offers. It's free, it's his site. You don't like it - go
somewhere else. Simple.
But obviously you see the value of having your glider advertised for
sale on his site, otherwise you wouldn't make such a fuss...



BobD;835471 Wrote:
The other's a just posers. W&W is where the gliders get sold.-

UH-

WOW UH. "The others are just posers"... what an unhealthy position that
is for our sport. In case you haven't noticed, this is the United
States, where free enterprise competition exists for the benefit of the
end-user. Me: I'm just trying to sell my glider and stay vibrant in this
sport. What's stupid is Tim asked me when I placed my ad what I was
getting. I told him a Jonker JS-1C. 3 months later he comes back to
bully me into pulling my "for sale" ad off SoaringCafe instead of saying
"Hey Bob, hope your ad on my site is getting you prospects. Keep me in
mind for your new glider needs such as panel instruments, waxes etc."
Now that won't happen, will it?

Nope--that wasn't the message I got. I got the Soviet Union instead--my
way or the highway. Again: Is this how YOU would treat past, loyal
customers? Is this how you help the sport prosper? I understand the
issue of competition as with my business.

Read the previous post: he does this to others. How detrimental to the
sport.





--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771

On Friday, April 12, 2013 8:58:39 AM UTC-6, BruceGreeff wrote:
The more I see and hear the more I

sympathise with that decision.



Bruce Greeff

T59D #1771
Hey Bruce, What have you seen and heard? Ive seen and heard an individual who lives half way around the globe and has "no pony in this race" provide some totally unbased comments. Kill-file anyone?
It is important to note that these sellers draw traffic to a commercial site. Would this not dictate some common courtesy?