Soaring Community Consumer Warning

Money quote:

"I did go flying today! My first 1-26 flight. 10 ads posted automatically to glidersource.com while I was out there."

Well done, Bill. I like your site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

https://www.facebook.com/SailplaneWantAds

100 likes and 1200 views in 2 days.

Free. No requirements at all.

Feel welcomed to post your for sale ad here. I suggest copying and pasting any other ad you have into your Facebook picture submission. You can even include a link to other ads such as glidersource or soaring cafe. I would also suggest adding a link to the Facebook glider want ads post to those ad sites. People can then easily like or share or comment about the ad to friends which is a very powerful capability in making the decision to buy something as important as a glider. These prospective buyers also can easily contact you about your glider via Facebook. Also very powerful...

Perhaps the light bulbs are flickering for some of you who don't get social media marketing? :-). One can hope...

Enjoy!

I would like to point out some obvious facts. First, 25 years ago we didn’t have the Internet & Facebook. We had the Soaring magazine, newspaper classified ads and Trade-a-plane. Technology improved and today we have all of these sources (and more). 25 years from now there will be more of the same. Change. Some formats will disappear and new ones will take their place. Personally, I don’t think Facebook is particularly effective selling tool because it isn’t designed as such. That doesn’t mean that tomorrow Facebook won’t change a bit to make it a great place to source or advertise product. Time will tell.

I will wade in on the comments about the soaring community telling a small businessman how to run his/her business. Soaring is a very niche market. We aren’t talking Walmart or used cars here. These folks derive their livelihood from selling products. If they can generate additional traffic through their “store” and increase sales by requiring exclusivity on used glider for sale ads, I’m all for it. That is being creative. And speaking of used cars, how many of you think you should be able to go to single source and see all used car offerings? Yet you are demanding this for gliders? All I can say is wow (add adjectives describing negative aspects of human behavior).

DWI (Navy SEAL lingo for deal with it) and then go buy a glider.

If they can generate additional traffic through their “store” and increase sales by requiring exclusivity on used glider for sale ads, I’m all for it. That is being creative.

Craig: it's being creative IF the exclusivity requirement is stated UP FRONT and not invoked AFTER compliance with the actual stated policy.

Go back a read the incident facts. Here's to hoping you don't have a vendor change the deal to suit themselves and their "creative" version of exclusivity after you, in good faith and understanding, complied with the original version. I'm so sure you'll take that as fair and equitable business on their part and depart with a smile on your face.

Go back a read the incident facts. Here's to hoping you don't have a vendor change the deal to suit themselves and their "creative" version of exclusivity after you, in good faith and understanding, complied with the original version. I'm so sure you'll take that as fair and equitable business on their part and depart with a smile on your face.


Bob, This has happened to me hundreds of times in my career. Being a professional Category Manager/Buyer in retail and dealing daily with Salesmen for almost 25 years, you tend to expect it... (not to say there aren't many above board Salesmen, but there are those that will say or do anything to get what they want).

Ever buy products from Nike or Walmart? (there are many others, but I’ll stop there) Feel ok with those purchases? Do you shop them on occasion? Do your family and friends utilize their products or services? Well, if what was stated earlier at W&W upsets you, then you would never buy from either Nike or Walmart again.... EVER. Being a direct competitor with Walmart and friends of many corporate Nike employees, I have direct and supplier information relating to both companies. In comparison, stuff that they have done in the past makes removing a glider ad absolutely irrelevant. We are talking millions of dollars, putting many many companies out of business, and disrupting the lives/careers of thousands.

The point is that most businesses do many things patrons won’t approve of (including my company). This circumstance just happened to be reported. If you get indignant over this and then carried this over to your daily lives, then you will have few places to shop, services to use.

And if we get down to brass tacks, I’d bet the statistics (easily manipulated by the way/been there, done that) show that viewing the soaring classified ads is more about personal fantasy or killing time than actually buying a glider (NOT that this changes the relevance of this thread). The web traffic and company recognition is still valid for the retailer no matter why the ads are viewed.

You may dislike what happened at W&W, but let’s prioritize a bit on getting upset. This example is “small potatoes”.

At 21:37 02 April 2013, Craig R. wrote:

You may dislike what happened at W&W, but let's prioritize a bit on
getting upset. This example is small potatoes.

You are right, 20 years ago this would have been small potatoes. Like it or
not we are in an age when what happens can be communicated to literally
millions of people very easily.You do not have to arouse media interest you
just post something on the internet.
Now I live in the UK so I have never ever had any contact with Wings and
Wheels and now I am never likely to. At best the proprietor comes over as
someone more concerned with himself than his customers and the number of
people that know this increases exponetially. Agree most of them won't care
a jot but a small business, and W&W is a small business, relies on cash
flow and even the loss of a few customers can be serious.
Of course someone has the right to run their business how they see fit but
they have to appreciate that upsetting one customer does not mean that just
that one customer knows any more.

Originally Posted by Don Johnstone[_4_]

At 21:37 02 April 2013, Craig R. wrote:

You may dislike what happened at W&W, but let's prioritize a bit on
getting upset. This example is small potatoes.

At best the proprietor comes over as someone more concerned with himself than his customers and the number of people that know this increases exponetially. Agree most of them won't care a jot but a small business, and W&W is a small business, relies on cash flow and even the loss of a few customers can be serious.
Of course someone has the right to run their business how they see fit but
they have to appreciate that upsetting one customer does not mean that just
that one customer knows any more.

Well, if you haven't noticed many other posts, most folks here have had excellent service from Tim. I've dealt with him many times and he has always been informative prompt and helpful. And even when I screwed up my PNA, he helped me get it back to factory settings at no charge. I appreciate his responses to my questions, and he has always been an excellent businessman in my book, including offering discounts when I hadn't asked. Thanks Tim.

If that matters at all...

Cheers me old,
Squeak

On 4/2/2013 8:59 AM, Craig R. wrote:
If they can generate additional traffic through their “store” and
increase sales by requiring exclusivity on used glider for sale ads,
I’m all for it.

"IF" is the operative word here. How often do glider pilots buy or sell
a used glider? The last time I did that was 18 years ago, and I didn't
advertise anywhere but our regional newsletter, finally selling it to an
out-of-state friend by word-of-mouth. A lot more people, like me, buy
instruments, soaring computers, tape, tires, and other stuff every year,
and Tim's used glider ads aren't getting us to his site.

Personally, I like Tim, and I've bought things from him for many years,
but his site is the last place I go when I'm looking for stuff. It's
worse than unattractive because of the slapped together, multi-colored
"style", and hard to read with everything center-justified. A few
times, when I really wanted to peruse a page, I've put the page into an
html editor so I could re-format it before it made me nuts.

I think Tim is focusing on a tree (exclusive glider ads) and not the
forest (his overall business). I hope he finds somebody with the ability
to design a website that's attractive and easy to use, then takes their
advice!

Next step: make it more informative. "Informative" is why I always start
at Cumulus Soaring, but Wings & Wheels doesn't have to match that, just
do better than now.

Finally, talk to that web person about website statistics, so he can see
how many people are coming to his site, what they are looking at, when
they bail out and when they complete a purchase instead. If it's
possible, he could start with statistics for his current site. It might
be a real eye-opener, and would also let him measure the changes in
traffic and the number buying.

My guess is lots of people click in but leave soon after. But why guess
when statistics are easy to get?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:59:28 AM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote:
And speaking of used cars, how many of you think you should be able to go to single source and see all used car offerings? Yet you are demanding this for gliders?

Try it this way... if you list a car for sale on Craig's List do you expect to find your listing removed because you have also advertised it on ebay? Of course not.

T8