Experience with StarkPower LIFEPo4 Batteries?

On 4/29/2013 5:08 AM, Papa3 wrote:
Most of the folks (myself included) who have switched to the LIFEPo4
seem to be using the K2 Energy 12V/10ah with included BMS based on
what I see at the charging station at contests. Today, a club member
showed me a competing product from StarkPower which is a 12V/12ah
including BMS that's about $50 cheaper. I haven't been able to find
the technical documentation on either company's Website to do a
detailed comparison of their performance specs (especially the
discharge curve), but let's assume they are similar. 20% more
capacity for 25% less cost seems attractive. Does anyone have any
experience with the StarkPower product?

I couldn't find a datasheet, either, so I requested one using their
website email form.

I won't buy a battery of this type from anyone that does not have a
comprehensive datasheet for it. For me, that is the absolute minimum
effort they should go to, especially for a relatively new and unknown
company.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

On 4/29/2013 4:01 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/29/2013 5:08 AM, Papa3 wrote:
Most of the folks (myself included) who have switched to the LIFEPo4
seem to be using the K2 Energy 12V/10ah with included BMS based on
what I see at the charging station at contests. Today, a club member
showed me a competing product from StarkPower which is a 12V/12ah
including BMS that's about $50 cheaper. I haven't been able to find
the technical documentation on either company's Website to do a
detailed comparison of their performance specs (especially the
discharge curve), but let's assume they are similar. 20% more
capacity for 25% less cost seems attractive. Does anyone have any
experience with the StarkPower product?

I couldn't find a datasheet, either, so I requested one using their
website email form.

I won't buy a battery of this type from anyone that does not have a
comprehensive datasheet for it. For me, that is the absolute minimum
effort they should go to, especially for a relatively new and unknown
company.

I regret to say the "datasheet" the company provided is just a copy of
the information on their website: no charts, no temperature characteristics.

These batteries are complex devices compared to the SLA batteries we've
been using for decades, but even the SLAs have comprehensive datasheets
available. I expect even more testing and information from the
manufacturers of the newer batteries that include electronic management
systems.

If the batteries were manufactured by a company with a decades-old
reputation, like Panasonic, Powersonic, Yuasa, etc, I'd be much more
willing to trust them, unfortunately, they come from small companies
with very short histories.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On Monday, April 29, 2013 11:32:45 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:

If the batteries were manufactured by a company with a decades-old
reputation, like Panasonic, Powersonic, Yuasa, etc, I'd be much more
willing to trust them, unfortunately, they come from small companies
with very short histories.


In the era of same-branded batteries sourced in batches from the lowest bidder in different countries, is it still valid to trust a battery based on the reputation of a long-standing brand name? I think not.

When you test a battery for safety, your results are at best applicable to other batteries from the same batch.

Is there a market for rocket-launched ejectable battery boxes?

On 4/30/2013 9:40 AM, son_of_flubber wrote:
In the era of same-branded batteries sourced in batches from the
lowest bidder in different countries, is it still valid to trust a
battery based on the reputation of a long-standing brand name? I
think not.

I think Sony or Panasonic, for example, have a big incentive to ensure
the batteries that carry their name will not harm their reputation. They
also have the resources to recall and replace defective products. Not so
likely for small, newly created companies.

Reputation and history aren't perfect markers for quality, but what else
do we have to go on? Well, there are the data sheets I can get from the
big companies, but not from the new little ones.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:04:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:

Reputation and history aren't perfect markers for quality, but what else
do we have to go on?

I'll buy that an established source with reputation and history is better than fly-by-night commodity producers.

As to alternatives, look to the small innovative companies that are betting the company on building a safer high energy density battery. For example
http://www.allcelltech.com/technolog...hermal-runaway

What do the smart guys here think of this technology? Does it have merit or is it a marketing gimmick?

From "Gliding International", May-June 2013, page 57, paragraph 3

"It is not commonly known that there have been three known Lithium batteries (sic) fires within an airborne sailplane producing two fatalities."

On Monday, May 6, 2013 6:53:10 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
From "Gliding International", May-June 2013, page 57, paragraph 3



"It is not commonly known that there have been three known Lithium batteries (sic) fires within an airborne sailplane producing two fatalities."

That statement requires specific citations of national safety board accident reports to be believable. AFAIK, all national aviation safety boards require investigations of in-flight fires so there should be reports on file.

The only reports of in-flight battery fires I can find involve lead-acid or Ni-cad packs.

On Monday, May 6, 2013 8:53:10 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
From "Gliding International", May-June 2013, page 57, paragraph 3
"It is not commonly known"...

"Not commonly known" because it is bunkum...

On Monday, May 6, 2013 8:53:10 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
From "Gliding International", May-June 2013, page 57, paragraph 3



"It is not commonly known that there have been three known Lithium batteries (sic) fires within an airborne sailplane producing two fatalities."

And a couple of pages later there's a brief article extolling the virtues of helium for restoring old gelcoat attributed, of all people, to Tom Knauff.. Oh, and a full page ad for that idiotic VTOL electric pipe dream from Joby. Was this to be a special April 1 issue?

Okay, so no one bats 1000. But the unsourced FUD on batteries is particularly annoying.

T8