Why not put an audible variometer in every glider?

"kirk.stant" wrote in message
...
snip

We can't get our club to agree that radios are a good thing! "Too
complicated, confuses the student, they can't learn to fly and talk at the
same time yadda yadda yadda".

Pathetic, really.

Kirk
66

Yeah, but I'll bet they can send a text message at 40 words/minute...

On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:59:27 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
"kirk.stant" wrote in message

...

snip



We can't get our club to agree that radios are a good thing! "Too

complicated, confuses the student, they can't learn to fly and talk at the

same time yadda yadda yadda".



Pathetic, really.



Kirk

66



Yeah, but I'll bet they can send a text message at 40 words/minute...

I think the ideal is an audio Vario that can run on a standard 9V battery. No charging required, easy to replace. Our clubs Ka-6 has a Ball vario set up to run on a 9V. More modern options include the B-40 which I fly with in 2 of my gliders and enjoy the 9V option (one of those gliders has no other electrical system)

I generally like radios, but they aren't a show stopper. Inability to communicate has surely led to the loss of a few good soaring pilots over the years, and so has the ability to communicate.

One day soon a student will just show up with her sunglasses running XCSoar (HUD-edition). Printed on the bill of her baseball cap will be a solar-charged and disposable sensor pack that includes a barometric altimeter, HD GPS, and 3-D inertial probe. IR video overlay will highlight the thermal generating hot spots on the ground. 300 km tasks in SGS 2-33s will become the norm for first year pilots.

The steam gauges in the panel of the SGS 2-33 will keep the FAA happy.

So is one answer to my question,

"CFI-Gs largely hold sway over how we equip our trainers. Many CFI-Gs just want the student to pass the PTS ASAP, and basic skill with a audible variometer is not part of the PTS."

On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 08:12:00 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

"CFI-Gs largely hold sway over how we equip our trainers. Many CFI-Gs
just want the student to pass the PTS ASAP, and basic skill with a
audible variometer is not part of the PTS."

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I should
think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring skills
would get boring rather fast.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Monday, June 3, 2013 4:55:12 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I should
think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring skills
would get boring rather fast.

The theory seems to be that once a student passes the PTS, the successful pilots take the initiative to continue and self-direct their training until they retire entirely from flying. If pilot does not do that, it is perhaps desirable that they get bored and quit.

With the present training fleet, the majority of pilots in the USA learn to fly without an audible variometer and one might argue that that is the most basic skill because batteries sometimes go dead, and many gliders do not have audible variometers.

On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 17:36:04 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Monday, June 3, 2013 4:55:12 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I
should think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring
skills would get boring rather fast.

The theory seems to be that once a student passes the PTS, the
successful pilots take the initiative to continue and self-direct their
training until they retire entirely from flying. If pilot does not do
that, it is perhaps desirable that they get bored and quit.

With the present training fleet, the majority of pilots in the USA learn
to fly without an audible variometer and one might argue that that is
the most basic skill because batteries sometimes go dead, and many
gliders do not have audible variometers.

As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio
varios and FLARM. Part of a student's training involves learning to put
the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and
putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing
the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and
helping with the DI in the morning?

I should, perhaps add that we use a booking system for training in which
the minimum slot is half a day (one glider + instructor per two students
for the half day). An explicit part of the booked slot is being there to
help with getting the kit out and DIed if you have a morning booking and
being there to help pack the hangar in the evening after an afternoon
booking.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

In article Martin Gregorie writes:
On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 08:12:00 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

"CFI-Gs largely hold sway over how we equip our trainers. Many CFI-Gs
just want the student to pass the PTS ASAP, and basic skill with a
audible variometer is not part of the PTS."

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I should
think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring skills
would get boring rather fast.

But, why do you need an audio vario to do that?

I learned to soar in a pair of gliders with mechanical varios. One of
them did not have a TE probe. For a while, early on, I considered getting
one of the hang-gliding audio-only varios, but eventually abandoned that
idea.

Much later, when I was out in a higher performance glider, we decided to
turn the volume down on that annoying thing.

Alan

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:36:36 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

Much later, when I was out in a higher performance glider, we decided to
turn the volume down on that annoying thing.

Sounds like your training rooted you in the somewhat less safe habit of looking at the vario needle when you could be scanning for traffic.

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 07:36:36 +0000, Alan wrote:

In article Martin Gregorie
writes:
On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 08:12:00 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

"CFI-Gs largely hold sway over how we equip our trainers. Many CFI-Gs
just want the student to pass the PTS ASAP, and basic skill with a
audible variometer is not part of the PTS."

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I
should think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring
skills would get boring rather fast.

But, why do you need an audio vario to do that?

You don't, but nonetheless all my clubs gliders, both single and two
seat, now have both audio varios and FLARM fitted. The benefit of a good
audio vario is that you can find and utilise a thermal without needing to
look at the thing or taking your eyes off the other gliders in the
thermal. We're a big club, so our airspace gets busy sometimes and
multiply occupied thermals near the field are common, so both instruments
are decidedly worthwhile for their safety aspect.

What set me going was the comment that "Many CFI-Gs just want the student
to pass the PTS ASAP" remark: I'd say that IMO if a student is sent solo
without having being taught the basics of finding, centring and using
thermals safely and efficiently then his CFI-G hasn't done his job
properly.

And, before you ask, I think thermalling basics include being able to
join a multiply occupied thermal, climb in it without upsetting the other
occupants and leave it heading in the right direction without causing any
near misses or frights.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |