PowerFlarm at Region 9 Contest

On Monday, June 10, 2013 9:39:26 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2013 8:53:21 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:

Neither Flarm nor



transponder will protect against VFR aircraft not in contact with ATC. PCAS



might work for that, however.









I was under the impression that PowerFlarm (not Flarm) did that since it receives Mode C replies. Is that not the case?

Yes, but I was replying to Dan who doesn't want a Flarm. We have lots of aviation traffic going to small airfields that are not in contact with ATC. Single-engine stuff is usually low down, but twins are often coming in from a destination further away and descend through airspace near the gliderport. They never seem to be looking out of their windows and won't be aware of me unless they too have a PCAS.


Mike

Yes, but you can't get out of the way of an airliner - you're a stationary
target at his speed. And, if you have a Flarm only and not a transponder,
the airliner won't see you.


"jfitch" wrote in message
...
On Monday, June 10, 2013 8:53:21 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Neither Flarm nor

transponder will protect against VFR aircraft not in contact with ATC.
PCAS

might work for that, however.




I was under the impression that PowerFlarm (not Flarm) did that since it
receives Mode C replies. Is that not the case?

Thanks for posting that Mike.
Seems that the people who don't like these things are the ones that haven't used them. Only takes one alarm for traffic you weren't aware of...
You can install FLARM and TXP at the same time, Dan et al. TXP won't be much help with pilots not talking to ATC. I've seen plenty of aircraft up close while squawking with (certified) transponders made by Becker (two installations) Terra (one) and Trig (two). There are no guarantees.
Jim

"PowerFlarm and transponders are not going to fix the major cause of accidents among glider pilots."

I'm going to be purchasing and installing a PowerFLARM core this winter so I'm by no means "anti-FLARM" but I do agree with that statement. I lost two friends a little while back due to a glider-glider midair (both of them had PowerFLARM on early order but were still waiting for it to be produced when they collided) but I've lost several more in the dozen years I've been flying in other types of crashes.

Back to PowerFLARM itself, one thing I can't understand is why is the core unit so big? I made a mock up of the portable and the core to check out installation options. They're almost the same size even though the core doesn't need to house a display, control knob and batteries. It looks like I'll be able to fit it on top of the chassis holding my Dittel FSG-50 comm but it'll be tight.

By the time I finish paying for the core unit, 57mm display (nothing else will fit my panel without serious layout modifications and instrument changes), installing it according to the relevant Schleicher TN, and revising the W&B and equipment list I figure it's going to cost me a fair chunk more cash than the commonly bandied about "$1500" too.

What I would really like to see, and presumably it will come in time, would be the option to purchase a vario-nav system with built in integrated PowerFLARM similar to what's available now with the "classic" European FLARM system.

By the time I finish paying for the core unit, 57mm display (nothing else will fit my panel without serious layout modifications and instrument changes), installing it according to the relevant Schleicher TN, and revising the W&B and equipment list I figure it's going to cost me a fair chunk more cash than the commonly bandied about "$1500" too.

What I would really like to see, and presumably it will come in time, would be the option to purchase a vario-nav system with built in integrated PowerFLARM similar to what's available now with the "classic" European FLARM system.

There is no Schleicher TN on flarm installation, which will make your life easier.

Most of the current NAV systems allow you to display flarm data without the additional flarm display. Most clearnav pilots that I know are not using the flarm display, and just showing flarm data on clearnav.

John Cochrane

On Friday, June 14, 2013 7:10:14 AM UTC-7, wrote:
By the time I finish paying for the core unit, 57mm display (nothing else will fit my panel without serious layout modifications and instrument changes), installing it according to the relevant Schleicher TN, and revising the W&B and equipment list I figure it's going to cost me a fair chunk more cash than the commonly bandied about "$1500" too.



What I would really like to see, and presumably it will come in time, would be the option to purchase a vario-nav system with built in integrated PowerFLARM similar to what's available now with the "classic" European FLARM system.



There is no Schleicher TN on flarm installation, which will make your life easier.



Most of the current NAV systems allow you to display flarm data without the additional flarm display. Most clearnav pilots that I know are not using the flarm display, and just showing flarm data on clearnav.



John Cochrane

I found that I could squeeze the Butterfly display under my glare shield and I am porting the Flarm data to my Oudie. It's the antennas that I find difficult to mount neatly.

Mike

"There is no Schleicher TN on flarm installation, which will make your life easier."

There's nothing specific to FLARM but TN 02-2008 16.01.08 provides guidelines for installing additional equipment. This will actually make my life easier as it gives something for my AMO to refer to when documenting the installation. Having to make up the installation standards from scratch, get them approved by Transport Canada and hoping they consider it a minor mod would be a headache in comparison. The standards in the TN are pretty much common sense things that are what I would do anyways (if something's heavy enough to injure you if it breaks free you secure it well, don't block any of the primary flight instruments, use a fuse or breaker on electrical equipment etc. etc.)

Of the vario/nav systems I'm interested in I've been told the LX 7007C Basic won't display PowerFLARM but the LX 8080 Simple will. That's probably the one I'm going to buy. I'll still be using the dedicated 57mm Butterfly display with it.

On Saturday, June 15, 2013 2:24:13 AM UTC-6, wrote:

Of the vario/nav systems I'm interested in I've been told the LX 7007C Basic won't display PowerFLARM but the LX 8080 Simple will. That's probably the one I'm going to buy. I'll still be using the dedicated 57mm Butterfly display with it.

A dedicated display is good. You owe it to yourself to compare the LXNav Flarmview. Better audio and more features than the Butterfly.

"A dedicated display is good. You owe it to yourself to compare the LXNav Flarmview. Better audio and more features than the Butterfly."

The only PowerFLARM dedicated display which will fit my panel without extensive alterations to the panel itself and changes to the pneumatic instruments to make room is the 57mm Butterfly so I'll have to go with it regardless of any advantages the others have.

If anyone else made a 57mm display I would certainly give it consideration - actually, a complete PowerFLARM built into a unit with a 57mm display would be ideal for my purposes as it would avoid the work required to build a mount on top of the radio bracket to accommodate the Core. I doubt anything like that will ever be made however.

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 1:23:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
"A dedicated display is good. You owe it to yourself to compare the LXNav Flarmview. Better audio and more features than the Butterfly."



The only PowerFLARM dedicated display which will fit my panel without extensive alterations to the panel itself and changes to the pneumatic instruments to make room is the 57mm Butterfly so I'll have to go with it regardless of any advantages the others have.



If anyone else made a 57mm display I would certainly give it consideration - actually, a complete PowerFLARM built into a unit with a 57mm display would be ideal for my purposes as it would avoid the work required to build a mount on top of the radio bracket to accommodate the Core. I doubt anything like that will ever be made however.

I see many go through special effort the mount the core. The core is so light you can just use industrial velcro. Mine is holding very well.

Ramy