Oxygen Generators

On Monday, September 23, 2013 2:39:28 PM UTC-8, JohnDeRosa wrote:
On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:56:34 PM UTC-5, Vaughn wrote: Fly one with with a pulse oximeter ($39.99 at Walmart) to verify that it works for you... Vaughn Actually only $35 at Walmart. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Choicemmed...r-1ct/17325061

Pulse oximeters are poor indicators of O2 saturation for glider pilots. Peripheral (as in fingers)vaso-constriction is common at the temperature and altitudes we fly. I used one for a few years and was over consuming Oxygen in an effort to keep the saturation above 95%. I use a EDS delivery system and consistantly got values of around 86% when above 6000 feet. I actually went to a Pulmonologist to see what, if anything, was wrong with my lungs and found that my lung capacity and ventilation were above normal. So I tossed out the oximeter and just trust the equipment to deliver the right amount of O2. So far so good.

wrote, On 9/26/2013 12:10 PM:
On Monday, September 23, 2013 2:39:28 PM UTC-8, JohnDeRosa wrote:
On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:56:34 PM UTC-5, Vaughn wrote:
Fly one with with a pulse oximeter ($39.99 at Walmart) to verify
that it works for you... Vaughn Actually only $35 at Walmart.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Choicemmed...r-1ct/17325061


Pulse oximeters are poor indicators of O2 saturation for glider
pilots. Peripheral (as in fingers)vaso-constriction is common at the
temperature and altitudes we fly. I used one for a few years and was
over consuming Oxygen in an effort to keep the saturation above 95%.
I use a EDS delivery system and consistantly got values of around 86%
when above 6000 feet. I actually went to a Pulmonologist to see
what, if anything, was wrong with my lungs and found that my lung
capacity and ventilation were above normal. So I tossed out the
oximeter and just trust the equipment to deliver the right amount of
O2. So far so good.

Since I can keep O2 saturation above 95% at even 18000' using the normal
EDS settings, does that mean I have excellent circulation? Or really
good lung function?

It does drop into the 90-95% range sometimes, but that's also when I
realize my breathing is very shallow; i.e., I don't seem to be inhaling
very much after I hear the "poosh" of the EDS oxygen pulse.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

That's amazing at your age Eric. Probably a defective oximeter.

wrote, On 9/27/2013 9:57 AM:
That's amazing at your age Eric. Probably a defective oximeter.

I have an expensive, older Minolta and a much newer cheapie, but they
read quite close together. I'll take them both along next time for a
better comparison.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

wrote in message
...
That's amazing at your age Eric. Probably a defective oximeter.

Also could be that he has reinoids syndrome (sp?) or something , which
causes the blood flow to the fingers to be almost completely cut off when
the fingers get cold, and they get cold very easily with this condition.

Try hooking the sensor up to your ear lobe. Really.

Jim in NC

On Monday, September 30, 2013 10:32:02 AM UTC-5, Morgans wrote:
wrote in message ... That's amazing at your age Eric. Probably a defective oximeter. Also could be that he has reinoids syndrome (sp?) or something , which causes the blood flow to the fingers to be almost completely cut off when the fingers get cold, and they get cold very easily with this condition. Try hooking the sensor up to your ear lobe. Really. Jim in NC

I believe the condition you are referring to is "Raynaud's Phenomenon". And you're right .... it can/does restrict blood flow to some finger tips due to stress and/or cold. Finger tips could even turn blue.

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 11:49:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Since I can keep O2 saturation above 95% at even 18000' using the normal
EDS settings, does that mean I have excellent circulation? Or really
good lung function?


It could also mean that you breathing too rapidly or deeply (mild hyperventilating). Hyperventilation will dilate your finger blood vessels and RAISE the pulse oximeter saturation number. And hyperventilation will simultaneously constrict your cerebral blood vessels, and thereby LOWER the O2 saturation of the blood going to your brain (thereby inducing mild hypoxia). Vasodilation may also lower the temperature of your core and induce the mental dulling effects of mild hypothermia.

See http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/...-p18-20-22.pdf

It does drop into the 90-95% range sometimes, but that's also when I
realize my breathing is very shallow; i.e., I don't seem to be inhaling
very much after I hear the "poosh" of the EDS oxygen pulse.

If you're making any conscious effort to "breath", you may be mildly hyperventilating.

A common way to breath at the correct rate is to talk (or sing) out loud, this distracts you from thinking about your respiration rate. The autonomic nervous system works best without conscious or emotional intervention.

son_of_flubber wrote, On 9/29/2013 4:47 PM:
On Thursday, September 26, 2013 11:49:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell
wrote:
Since I can keep O2 saturation above 95% at even 18000' using the
normal EDS settings, does that mean I have excellent circulation?
Or really good lung function?


It could also mean that you breathing too rapidly or deeply (mild
hyperventilating). Hyperventilation will dilate your finger blood
vessels and RAISE the pulse oximeter saturation number. And
hyperventilation will simultaneously constrict your cerebral blood
vessels, and thereby LOWER the O2 saturation of the blood going to
your brain (thereby inducing mild hypoxia). Vasodilation may also
lower the temperature of your core and induce the mental dulling
effects of mild hypothermia.

See
http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/...-p18-20-22.pdf


It does drop into the 90-95% range sometimes, but that's also when
I realize my breathing is very shallow; i.e., I don't seem to be
inhaling very much after I hear the "poosh" of the EDS oxygen
pulse.

If you're making any conscious effort to "breath", you may be mildly
hyperventilating.

A common way to breath at the correct rate is to talk (or sing) out
loud, this distracts you from thinking about your respiration rate.
The autonomic nervous system works best without conscious or
emotional intervention.

I wonder if there might be a training effect from the "poosh" of the EDS
system, such that a pilot tends to stop inhaling sooner than he
otherwise would.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Question to clarify how EDS works: I assume that the pilot controls the respiration rate and that inhaling triggers the release of O2 from the EDS.

On Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:04:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:

I wonder if there might be a training effect from the "poosh" of the EDS
system, such that a pilot tends to stop inhaling sooner than he
otherwise would.

I can imagine that EDS might train a pilot to take MORE SHALLOW breathes, but the body's autonomic system would then detect an imbalance and prompt the pilot to take MORE FREQUENT breathes in order to establish proper O2 (and CO2) blood levels. Conscious breathing disrupts the autonomic regulation process.

If your pulse oximeter reads low, then turn up the O2 delivery rate or descend. Do you use Aerox Silicone mask or similar with EDS above 18000?

son_of_flubber wrote, On 9/30/2013 6:20 AM:
Question to clarify how EDS works: I assume that the pilot controls
the respiration rate and that inhaling triggers the release of O2
from the EDS.

On Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:04:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell
wrote:

I wonder if there might be a training effect from the "poosh" of
the EDS system, such that a pilot tends to stop inhaling sooner
than he otherwise would.

I can imagine that EDS might train a pilot to take MORE SHALLOW
breathes, but the body's autonomic system would then detect an
imbalance and prompt the pilot to take MORE FREQUENT breathes in
order to establish proper O2 (and CO2) blood levels. Conscious
breathing disrupts the autonomic regulation process.

If your pulse oximeter reads low, then turn up the O2 delivery rate
or descend. Do you use Aerox Silicone mask or similar with EDS above
18000?

The pilot does control his respiration rate while using an EDS, but the
EDS will not deliver an oxygen pulse if the next inhalation occurs too
soon; i.e., it limits the maximum rate at which it will deliver oxygen
pulses.

It's been 15 years or so (pre-oximeter availability) since I went above
18,000', but I always used a cannula with EDS, never a mask. I would
ocasionally increase the flow (double or more), but never noticed any
change in how I felt or my thinking, even after several minutes, so I
assumed I was getting sufficient oxygen.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)