Towplane-Baron accident

I can see how this scenario has been presented by the media (per witness descriptions) but from what I have gathered, the Baron never got close enough to any other aircraft as to require such drastic maneuvering as a "pull up.." Pull up to severe stall (resulting in a fatal nose dive) from what exactly? Nothing? I am thinking that the Baron pilot (albeit tragic) really screwed up here.

The only reason I can see for major pull up resulting in a complete power on stall would be if there was an imminent collision. This was clearly not the case in this situation. This makes no sense to me unless aircraft missed each-other by a matter of feet.

Until the NTSB initial report comes out...

OK guys. I guess it's time to post some of what we really know. I'm the president of Southern eagles Soaring Club at LaGrange. We were not operating Saturday and I was not at the field. The Civil Air Patrol had been operating their L23 towed by their 172, for several hours from runway 3.

The Baron had been doing ILS low approaches to runway 31. They landed and refueled. There were various reports of what the Baron was doing before it crashed, including a missed approach from a practice ILS, a take off, and a go around. With all these reports, you can judge for your self the accuracy.. Everyone agreed that they did not hear any radio calls from the Baron.

The 172 and L23 were stopped on runway 3, south of runway 31. They never crossed the runway. The crews were very experienced, with 2 CFIG's in the L23 and a retired Air Force pilot and now Delta Captain flying the 172. One of the CFIGs is also a club member.

The crews saw the Baron at low altitude along runway 31. It pulled up very nose high, rolled to the left from 100-200 feet, and crashed in an approximate 60 degree nose down attitude. The front seat pilots were killed on impact. The passenger in the back later died at the hospital.

We do not now, nor will we ever know what made the PIC take the action that he did. They could have been flying simulated instruments, practicing single engine, had an engine failure, or any of a number of things.

Since the names have been release, we do know that the two co-owners were in the aircraft along with another pilot. Records show one of the co-owners was multi-engine rated. No records on the other co-owner. The third person did hold an ATP and instructors rating. We do not know the seating arrangement or who was at the controls.

All the noise about a glider being involved was from one person that was interviewed by two TV stations. He said the Baron was trying to avoid a glider. It unclear as to his actually seeing the crash. The only glider operating that day was sitting on runway 3 behind the tow plane.

Also to show the accuracy of the reporting, one of the stations reported the Baron had flown from Panama City, FL to LaGrange that morning. They used a screen shot from flightAware.com to confirm it. When we checked flightaware, it did indeed show a flight from Panama City as being the last flight they had recorded. Of course, That flight took place in October, 2013!

If any FACTS become available, I'll let you know. However, conjecture will not accomplish anything and could hurt our sport.

Charlie

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:11:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
...conjecture will not accomplish anything and could hurt our sport.

More likely, has already hurt our sport.

Have you approached the TV station and demanded a retraction,
and pointed out that they have libeled 'you', with potential
financial consequences?

No idea if that would help...

I asked them nicely to review the facts and only report the facts. I also pointed out their 4 month error on the flight plan. So far, they have not changed anything.

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:26:52 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:11:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:

...conjecture will not accomplish anything and could hurt our sport.



More likely, has already hurt our sport.



Have you approached the TV station and demanded a retraction,

and pointed out that they have libeled 'you', with potential

financial consequences?



No idea if that would help...

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:41:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I asked them nicely to review the facts and only report the facts.
I also pointed out their 4 month error on the flight plan.
So far, they have not changed anything.

You are dealing with the media.
To get their attention requires a baseball bat...

It appears that the TV reporters eyewitness may have actually only been an earwitness. Additional investigation reports that he heard the crash then looked over and saw it. I thought I heard him say that the first time the TV station played the interview. I never heard it after that. They must have edited it. Of course, they were still playing the original report last I saw.

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:47:14 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:41:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:

I asked them nicely to review the facts and only report the facts.

I also pointed out their 4 month error on the flight plan.

So far, they have not changed anything.



You are dealing with the media.

To get their attention requires a baseball bat...

Do we have someone at the SSA who is designated to deal with media & accidents? Perhaps we should?

Good report - thank you!


wrote in message
...
OK guys. I guess it's time to post some of what we really know. I'm the
president of Southern eagles Soaring Club at LaGrange. We were not operating
Saturday and I was not at the field. The Civil Air Patrol had been operating
their L23 towed by their 172, for several hours from runway 3.

The Baron had been doing ILS low approaches to runway 31. They landed and
refueled. There were various reports of what the Baron was doing before it
crashed, including a missed approach from a practice ILS, a take off, and a
go around. With all these reports, you can judge for your self the accuracy.
Everyone agreed that they did not hear any radio calls from the Baron.

The 172 and L23 were stopped on runway 3, south of runway 31. They never
crossed the runway. The crews were very experienced, with 2 CFIG's in the
L23 and a retired Air Force pilot and now Delta Captain flying the 172. One
of the CFIGs is also a club member.

The crews saw the Baron at low altitude along runway 31. It pulled up very
nose high, rolled to the left from 100-200 feet, and crashed in an
approximate 60 degree nose down attitude. The front seat pilots were killed
on impact. The passenger in the back later died at the hospital.

We do not now, nor will we ever know what made the PIC take the action that
he did. They could have been flying simulated instruments, practicing single
engine, had an engine failure, or any of a number of things.

Since the names have been release, we do know that the two co-owners were in
the aircraft along with another pilot. Records show one of the co-owners was
multi-engine rated. No records on the other co-owner. The third person did
hold an ATP and instructors rating. We do not know the seating arrangement
or who was at the controls.

All the noise about a glider being involved was from one person that was
interviewed by two TV stations. He said the Baron was trying to avoid a
glider. It unclear as to his actually seeing the crash. The only glider
operating that day was sitting on runway 3 behind the tow plane.

Also to show the accuracy of the reporting, one of the stations reported the
Baron had flown from Panama City, FL to LaGrange that morning. They used a
screen shot from flightAware.com to confirm it. When we checked flightaware,
it did indeed show a flight from Panama City as being the last flight they
had recorded. Of course, That flight took place in October, 2013!

If any FACTS become available, I'll let you know. However, conjecture will
not accomplish anything and could hurt our sport.

Charlie

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:11:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
OK guys. I guess it's time to post some of what we really know. I'm the president of Southern eagles Soaring Club at LaGrange. We were not operating Saturday and I was not at the field. The Civil Air Patrol had been operating their L23 towed by their 172, for several hours from runway 3.



The Baron had been doing ILS low approaches to runway 31. They landed and refueled. There were various reports of what the Baron was doing before it crashed, including a missed approach from a practice ILS, a take off, and a go around. With all these reports, you can judge for your self the accuracy. Everyone agreed that they did not hear any radio calls from the Baron.



The 172 and L23 were stopped on runway 3, south of runway 31. They never crossed the runway. The crews were very experienced, with 2 CFIG's in the L23 and a retired Air Force pilot and now Delta Captain flying the 172. One of the CFIGs is also a club member.



The crews saw the Baron at low altitude along runway 31. It pulled up very nose high, rolled to the left from 100-200 feet, and crashed in an approximate 60 degree nose down attitude. The front seat pilots were killed on impact. The passenger in the back later died at the hospital.



We do not now, nor will we ever know what made the PIC take the action that he did. They could have been flying simulated instruments, practicing single engine, had an engine failure, or any of a number of things.



Since the names have been release, we do know that the two co-owners were in the aircraft along with another pilot. Records show one of the co-owners was multi-engine rated. No records on the other co-owner. The third person did hold an ATP and instructors rating. We do not know the seating arrangement or who was at the controls.



All the noise about a glider being involved was from one person that was interviewed by two TV stations. He said the Baron was trying to avoid a glider. It unclear as to his actually seeing the crash. The only glider operating that day was sitting on runway 3 behind the tow plane.



Also to show the accuracy of the reporting, one of the stations reported the Baron had flown from Panama City, FL to LaGrange that morning. They used a screen shot from flightAware.com to confirm it. When we checked flightaware, it did indeed show a flight from Panama City as being the last flight they had recorded. Of course, That flight took place in October, 2013!



If any FACTS become available, I'll let you know. However, conjecture will not accomplish anything and could hurt our sport.



Charlie

please expound on "everyone" in your statement "agreed that they did not hear any radio calls from the Baron" because i have two witnesses who said they "distinctly" heard multiple radio calls from the baron 55 pertaining to traffic pattern radio calls. So your credibility of your "facts" directly conflict with mine, and i will tell you one thing, the hundreds of hours that i flew with my father, the pilot of the baron 55 who was killed, i can never recall a time when he failed to report an approach radio call, so either he screwed up that day or the CAP tow pilot was to incompetent to hear the oncoming traffic. PS. im always open for more info to find out if my dad screwed up bad or not, i just wanna know, and providing falsified information will not help.

All pilots screw up son. With over 45,000 hours flying the smallest to the biggest and never scratching any paint, I have screwed up enough to be convince that a GOD does indeed exist and believe that today or tomorrow GOD could be too busy to help.
Your father did what all pilots do and reacted to the event the best way he could.
I would bet on my son's life that he was all in doing his very best.
If you feel he was a good pilot then he was and I also bet he knew and accepted the moment he got out of bed and went into motion risk began. The process of looking for answers to an aircraft accident is cutthroat. It has to be because deep down inside, we know we could be next. It is the 'slicing and dicing' that aviators do going back a hundred years that forces all of us to do our very best, to be held to scrutiny, even after death.
Any number of things could have contributed to the accident. Questions without answers. It's tough. But this much I can guarantee, everybody is paying attention and not thinking negative thoughts about your father.
Be at peace.
R