Which PLB?

Newbie PLB questions:
Do you turn the unit on before you take off?

If not, how long might it take to boot up and acquire a GPS position fix?

Hypothetical situation: I'm landing out in a bad area, I have no radio contact with anyone, where I think I may get hurt. Can you press the Send Help button and then if you are OK after your dicey landing cancel the send help message you sent out?
I would hate send out the Please Help Me signal, get the system in gear, and then a few minutes later find out I'm OK. I would also hate to crash, get knocked unconscious and not be able to hit the button.. whats the protocol here?

An overlooked add-on capability of some PLBs lets you send "I'm OK" messages.
http://406link.com/ Every message shortens the internal battery life, so you need to use these messages sparingly. If I had this capability I would only use it (very rarely) to request a retrieve from a landout when my cell phone did not work and there was no landline close at hand. I think it is better to use a SPOT/INREACH for the "I'm OK" function and save the PLB battery for the real distress call that MUST succeed.

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:07:00 AM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Newbie PLB questions:

Do you turn the unit on before you take off?

No.



If not, how long might it take to boot up and acquire a GPS position fix?


This would depend on the model. Consult manufacturer. I think it is pretty fast and other factors will probably dominate your decision. The ResQLink has a short whip antenna (that you can deploy one handed in the cockpit, it is worthwhile to practice this in the dark.) The antenna and the 5 watt transmit pulse are two of the things that makes the distress call more likely to get through. The unit will at times send a distress signal without a GPS fix, then issue a second signal when it acquires a fix. As pointed out earlier, the unit only transmits when it can see a SARS satellite (so it does not waste battery).



Hypothetical situation: I'm landing out in a bad area, I have no radio contact with anyone, where I think I may get hurt. Can you press the Send Help button and then if you are OK after your dicey landing cancel the send help message you sent out?

The only way to cancel the 'help' message would be to talk with the agency that is coordinating the rescue (or ask your proxy to do that via cellphone). They attempt to contact you to confirm the request for help. You might use the 406link.com to send an "I'm OK" to cancel the distress call. Or you could send the "I'm OK" on your SPOT/INREACH if you carry one.

The implicit contract with PLBs is that you reasonably exhaust all possibilities of 'self-rescue' before issuing the 'distress call'.

If you knew you were going to 'truly crash land' in trees or rough terrain, or remote and far from roads, I think it would be 'reasonable' to send the distress signal before landing, even if you were out of contact to cancel it later. I say this because 'walking out' in remote areas is sometimes not a reasonable option. It is better to stay with the glider. If the SARS decided that my call was unreasonable, I'd be willing to 'take the heat'.



I would hate send out the Please Help Me signal, get the system in gear, and then a few minutes later find out I'm OK.


I would also hate to crash, get knocked unconscious and not be able to hit the button.. whats the protocol here?

That is a possibility and it is why a SPOT/INREACH tracking is a prudent accessory.

PLBs do ONE THING extremely well, but they do not supersede SPOT/INREACH.

PLBs do ONE THING extremely well, but they do not supersede SPOT/INREACH.

Good observation. It won't be long before someone sees the advantage of this and comes up with a device that does BOTH.
I'll wait for that one.

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 1:02:20 PM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
PLBs do ONE THING extremely well, but they do not supersede SPOT/INREACH.

Good observation. It won't be long before someone sees the advantage of this and comes up with a device that does BOTH.

I'll wait for that one.

You may be waiting a very long time. One of the reliability factors in a PLB design is that it is a sealed unit with a high reliability well-tested and carefully manufactured lithium long-life battery, and the unit suffers no wear and tear from ongoing use.

One of the advantages of a SPOT/INREACH is that it has a replaceable battery, so you don't have to worry about running down the battery by making "I'm OK" transmissions and tracking.

A unit that covered both bases would not eliminate any of the need for circuit and battery redundancy.

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:02:20 AM UTC-7, Soartech wrote:
PLBs do ONE THING extremely well, but they do not supersede SPOT/INREACH.



Good observation. It won't be long before someone sees the advantage of this and comes up with a device that does BOTH.

I'll wait for that one.

Perfect is the Enemy of Good.

These PLBs and tracking devices cost a few hundred bucks, a few launches, an aero retreive or two, a couple of nice dinners out. By all means do an evaluation of your own risks and needs and buy whatever is appropriate, and that might be both. But waiting around for a device that does everything is unlikely to help anybody.

And in this case a combo device may be worse than two separate devices.

Waiting until somebody sees any advantage? That is not the issue, you think every vendor in this space does not fully understand the competing technology and have done so for years. And it has not happened yet. So maybe run the thought experiment and ask why.

Maybe more likely each vendor is worried their devices (e.g. PLB/tracker purchased at Amazon, REI etc.) are more impulse buys/purchased by not so sophisticated consumers who really don't know what much about what they are buying and therefore trying to explain these issues and justify a more expensive device is a marketing challenge they may not want to get into. And once a vendor does a combo device they are publicizing weaknesses in their standard devices. And batteries are going to be an issue. A manufacturer has to meet demanding PLB battery/shelf life/operating time specs and also allow a user to run down the device while using it for tracking. So two separate battery packs? One primary for the PLB and one rechargeable for the tracker? How much larger than the standard device can this be... give that batteries are a significant part of many of these products volume.

The redundancy of having two separate devices, with two separate battery packs, that signal distress/provide tracking by two entirely different means is a huge selling point in my book, much preferable if you are doing more extreme things than having a single device. And I want a PLB strapped to my harness, the tracking and some of the advanced two-way messaging features of an InReach may work better if the device is mounted in front of you on the glider not your parachute harness.

Darryl

On 3/04/2014 02:09, son_of_flubber wrote:

PLBs do ONE THING extremely well, but they do not supersede SPOT/INREACH.

No. That's back to front. PLBs do one thing extremely well and
Spot/Inreach does NOT supersede them.

Spot/Inreach is an interesting toy. A PLB is the real thing.

GC

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 9:28:28 PM UTC-4, GC wrote:

Spot/Inreach is an interesting toy. A PLB is the real thing.

It's silly to turn this into a PC vs. MAC type argument.

The tracking and 'I'm OK' capabilities of SPOT/INREACH have real value and that base is not covered by a PLB.

On 3/04/2014 13:39, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 9:28:28 PM UTC-4, GC wrote:

Spot/Inreach is an interesting toy. A PLB is the real thing.

It's silly to turn this into a PC vs. MAC type argument.

The tracking and 'I'm OK' capabilities of SPOT/INREACH have real
value and that base is not covered by a PLB.


Sorry. I'm not one of the IT passionistas and that's not what I
intended. The point I wanted to make is that a PLB and its capabilities
are defined by international agreements and specifications and if you
buy something called a PLB you know exactly what you're getting and you
know it will meet it's specs with near 100% reliability.

A Spot or Inreach box will (possibly) attempt to do what you think the
the maker has claimed if you have interpreted his advertsing accurately
(rather than the way he hopes you will - this is the nub of the "Aegean"
case). If it can't/doesn't do it, that is your problem unless you have
a deep pocket.

I repeat, a PLB is the real thing, Spot/Inreach is (so far) an
interesting toy.

GC

To answer the original question - my PLB transmits an emergency signal as
soon as you turn it on. You DO NOT deploy the antenna and turn it on uless
you really mean it. Otherwise it hangs placidly in a zipper case on the
right shoulder of my parachute harness.


"GC" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 3/04/2014 13:39, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 9:28:28 PM UTC-4, GC wrote:

Spot/Inreach is an interesting toy. A PLB is the real thing.

It's silly to turn this into a PC vs. MAC type argument.

The tracking and 'I'm OK' capabilities of SPOT/INREACH have real
value and that base is not covered by a PLB.


Sorry. I'm not one of the IT passionistas and that's not what I intended.
The point I wanted to make is that a PLB and its capabilities are defined
by international agreements and specifications and if you buy something
called a PLB you know exactly what you're getting and you know it will
meet it's specs with near 100% reliability.

A Spot or Inreach box will (possibly) attempt to do what you think the the
maker has claimed if you have interpreted his advertsing accurately
(rather than the way he hopes you will - this is the nub of the "Aegean"
case). If it can't/doesn't do it, that is your problem unless you have a
deep pocket.

I repeat, a PLB is the real thing, Spot/Inreach is (so far) an interesting
toy.

GC

What happens if you moving when you activate it?
If a GPS model how often does it update the postion?

Brian