Best cross country ship class

Could you not buy a flapped glider and just leave the flaps in their most neutral setting for a year or so - ?

On Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 3:32:51 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Could you not buy a flapped glider and just leave the flaps in their most neutral setting for a year or so - ?

Sure, and you could buy a 5-speed car and drive everywhere in 3rd!

Mike

On 5/12/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Could you not buy a flapped glider and just leave the flaps in their most
neutral setting for a year or so - ?

This question'll likely trigger a small gamut of replies!

Having never owned or flown any high performance single seaters that did NOT
have flaps, here's my take. (Hidden assumption: the question refers to only
performance-enhancing camber-changing flaps, and not to large-deflection
landing flaps. So does my feedback...)

Indeed you could - and with very little loss of performance between the
performance you'll achieve by so doing, and what the ship is theoretically
capable of for a given speed. (Work out some numbers from the Johnson flight
test reports if you don't believe me.) Conceptually, it would be no different
from deciding to not retract retractable landing gear until one became
"sufficiently comfortable" in their new ship. Just because a ship has
features, nothing says Joe Pilot has to operate every feature on the first
flight...or on ANY flight. (Think water ballast, radio, flight computers, tail
parachute...)

That noted, it's been my experience when this issue comes up around the
gliderport that the person asking often has some concern about feeling
"overloaded" or "too busy" or some such to want to "have to fiddle
continuously" with a flap handle. What I've always tried to point out to them
is how they feel on their initial flights will rapidly change as the ship's
newness wears off and they gain familiarity with it. So if a pilot is
otherwise enamored of the concept of camber-changing flaps for whatever their
personal reason(s), my advice has always been to buy whatever flapped ship
they wish, and treat it as an unflapped one until such time as they're
comfortable "messing with" flaps.

Undoubtedly someone will point out that: 1) negative flaps aid low-speed
aileron control (generally true) and that to NOT mess with them on initial
tows is being dangerously irresponsible (an overstatement, IMHO), or some
similar sentiment, and 2) positive landing flaps decrease
stall/potential-touchdown speed (unarguably true).

As for 1), presuming one chooses "sensible weather conditions" for their
first-flight, this is arguably a rather fine point indeed. Against the day you
eventually fly ANY new-to-you single seater, my advice is to work actively on
improving one's wing-leveling skills/ability (many pilots are surprisingly
sloppy in this regard), do a good brief with the tug pilot and wing runner,
and go launch using the configuration with which you're the most comfortable.

Regarding 2) I find it easy to argue either to move the flap handle one time
(during your pre-pattern checklist) to "landing flap" and thereafter to
mentally put that behind you, fly the pattern using spoilers as you would in
an unflapped ship, and land, or alternatively, so simply fly the pattern and
land with 0-flap. The theoretical higher speed will be a non-issue for all
practical purposes, if you've been sensible about all the rest of your
first-flight airfield/weather conditions.

Nuances aside, "messing with flaps" is really something of a minor nit,
compared to everything else mentally a glider pilot must do on every flight.
Stated another way, the theoretical concern will - in hindsight - probably
have loomed MUCH larger than the practical reality. Piloting skill, not flaps,
keeps you in the air.

Have fun ship shopping!

Bob W.

P.S. If you buy a flapped ship, I predict a LOT less than a year will pass
before you're of a mind to begin using the flaps as the designer intended.

What are the pilots around you flying?

If everyone else flies 15m class & you buy standard you'll have to push
really hard to fly with / against them & will land out a lot.

If everybody else flies standard class & you buy 15m class then you won't
be pushing yourself at all, and it's pushing yourself (a little) that will
improve your soaring.

Neither of the above scenarios are good in your early years.
(Or later years for that matter)

And it's in the nature of the sport that you WILL want to fly with /
against the pilots around you.

With any glider from the LS4 to the JS1 the limiting factor is likely to be
you not the aircraft.

Regards

KN

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 12:30:04 AM UTC-7, Kevin Neave wrote:
What are the pilots around you flying?

If everyone else flies 15m class & you buy standard you'll have to push
really hard to fly with / against them & will land out a lot.

If everybody else flies standard class & you buy 15m class then you won't
be pushing yourself at all, and it's pushing yourself (a little) that will
improve your soaring.

Neither of the above scenarios are good in your early years.
(Or later years for that matter)

And it's in the nature of the sport that you WILL want to fly with /
against the pilots around you.

With any glider from the LS4 to the JS1 the limiting factor is likely to be
you not the aircraft.

Regards

KN

The performance difference between a modern standard class and 15 m is not that great - at least here in the strong conditions of the US Southwest. Two pilots we all try to keep up with fly a Discus 2 and an LS-8.

Mike