Sacrificial layer for gear-up protection.

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Lets say you are deploying a retractible gear glider in a club with members who some might suspect of landing the thing gear-up someday.

I've seen this eventuality addressed on an L-23 by putting a ziptie around the gear lowering handle.

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:36:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Lets say you are deploying a retractible gear glider in a club with members who some might suspect of landing the thing gear-up someday.

I've seen this eventuality addressed on an L-23 by putting a ziptie around the gear lowering handle.

all of the club retracts I've flown have had the handle disabled, either with a ziptie or with safety wire

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:29:47 PM UTC-6, Bob Pasker wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:36:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Lets say you are deploying a retractible gear glider in a club with members who some might suspect of landing the thing gear-up someday.

I've seen this eventuality addressed on an L-23 by putting a ziptie around the gear lowering handle.

all of the club retracts I've flown have had the handle disabled, either with a ziptie or with safety wire

I don't think that's going to work with a Discus

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:36:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Lets say you are deploying a retractible gear glider in a club with members who some might suspect of landing the thing gear-up someday.

I've seen this eventuality addressed on an L-23 by putting a ziptie around the gear lowering handle.

all of the club retracts I've flown have had the handle disabled, either with a ziptie or with safety wire

Disabling an aircraft control sounds not only insane but likely also illegal.

Mike

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 6:23:44 PM UTC-4, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:36:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Lets say you are deploying a retractible gear glider in a club with members who some might suspect of landing the thing gear-up someday.

I've seen this eventuality addressed on an L-23 by putting a ziptie around the gear lowering handle.

all of the club retracts I've flown have had the handle disabled, either with a ziptie or with safety wire

Disabling an aircraft control sounds not only insane but likely also illegal.

Mike

Slightly off topic but has entertainment value: Go tell that that to the mechanic who services the local CAP L23 and routinely safety-wires the canopy emergency jettison lever with SS-wire rather than thin copper wire which one could break .....

Not the best idea for a Club LS4 going cross country.
BillT

That just reflects a poor training program!

In every club I've been a member of, there's always been an operations
manager on duty at the takeoff/landing line. It should be his job to
verify gear down on every club ship in the pattern. Good training,
observant people, and functional radios should prevent gear up landings.

I would leave any club that wired my gear handle down.

On 5/15/2015 3:29 PM, Bob Pasker wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:36:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Lets say you are deploying a retractible gear glider in a club with members who some might suspect of landing the thing gear-up someday.
I've seen this eventuality addressed on an L-23 by putting a ziptie around the gear lowering handle.
all of the club retracts I've flown have had the handle disabled, either with a ziptie or with safety wire

--
Dan Marotta

At 16:06 16 May 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
That just reflects a poor training program!

In every club I've been a member of, there's always been an operations
manager on duty at the takeoff/landing line. It should be his job to
verify gear down on every club ship in the pattern. Good training,
observant people, and functional radios should prevent gear up landings.

I would leave any club that wired my gear handle down.


1. do you really want to put in place a system where it does not matter if
you land wheels up. That is one consequence of the sacrificial layer
application.
2. In the UK it is "forbidden" to warn a glider that he has not deployed
the U/c when on final approach. It is a fact that more serious accidents
have occurred when pilots concentrate on getting the U/c down and forget
about flying the glider. U/c warnings are frowned upon for the same reason,
especially those that are linked to the airbrakes. The theory is that less
damage is likely to ensue from a wheels up landing on an airfield than from
and untidy arrival by a pilot struggling with the U/c lever.
3. Disabling the U/c lever is not an approach I have even heard of before.
It would be illegal to do that over here.

Good training is the key, but as is oft said, there are two types of
pilots, those that have and those that are going to.

I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith
3S

On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 12:15:59 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith
3S

I've seen someone seriously injured when a pilot was distracted by a radio call on short final (Glider AB, check your gear). The gear was in fact up, but the pilot momentarily lost control of the glider trying to lower it and hit a spectator, seriously injuring that innocent bystander. It would've been far preferable to land gear up. I also know also of a pilot who was distracted on short final by an erroneous call from the ground. In fact, his gear was down and he dealt with it just fine, but it could easily have been a bad outcome.

Anyway, in several thousand glider takeoffs and landings, I've managed to land gear up twice. In both cases, I was extremely current, well-trained, and considered by my peers to be a good pilot. In one of those, I had a working gear warning which I managed to ignore until after the glider settled ("oh, that's what that annoying noise was"). Point being, those who sit on their pedestal and claim that only under-trained or careless pilots land gear up might want to to reconsider their stance. I know of several other very good pilots who have suffered the same fate.

Long-winded intro to the real question which is... yeah, if a strip of bonded sacraficial material works, great. I would point out that one of the real problems is that, with any sort of hard hit, the damage isn't just to the gelcoat. You have to inspect whatever bulkheads and seams are are bonded at the belly. I know of a relatively minor gear up that resulted in a fairly tricky repair on an LS glider.

P3