Sacrificial layer for gear-up protection.

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 11:59:26 AM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:

So, obviouisly, some testing is in order before slapping a strip of UHMW-PE on the belly of your glider. A test rig on a pick-up's reciever hitch could slam a patch of it down on a concrete runway to simulate a gear-up. Anybody interested?

I've been using 3/4 thick UHMW PE on my tractor mounted snow blower for the last couple of years on concrete, asphalt and pavers. Very little decrease in thickness. Loading is at least 15 psi. And, they don't mark up the surface. Material can be heat formed. I'm using countersunk bolts to mount the material.

Hmm, did anybody thought about accoustic gear warnings when deploying airbrakes in club gliders??
Or even more sophisticated "get the f... gear out before landing" voice warning???

just my 2ct.

;O)

On Sat, 16 May 2015 01:44:06 -0700, dr.patrese wrote:

Hmm, did anybody thought about accoustic gear warnings when deploying
airbrakes in club gliders??
Or even more sophisticated "get the f... gear out before landing" voice
warning???

We used to have them fitted. Now removed because we'd rather have the
glider landed safely with the wheel up than crashed because the pilot got
distracted by the warning.

However, our field is grass-covered all year round. I suppose its
possible we'd think the otherwise if our runways were sealed, gravelled
or baked dirt.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 2:44:08 AM UTC-6, wrote:
Hmm, did anybody thought about accoustic gear warnings when deploying airbrakes in club gliders??
Or even more sophisticated "get the f... gear out before landing" voice warning???

just my 2ct.

;O)

I'd guess the overwhelming majority of gear-up incidents were gliders with gear warnings installed. It helps but it's not foolproof.

That just reflects a poor training program!

In every club I've been a member of, there's always been an operations
manager on duty at the takeoff/landing line. It should be his job to
verify gear down on every club ship in the pattern. Good training,
observant people, and functional radios should prevent gear up landings.

I would leave any club that wired my gear handle down.

On 5/15/2015 3:29 PM, Bob Pasker wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:36:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Lets say you are deploying a retractible gear glider in a club with members who some might suspect of landing the thing gear-up someday.
I've seen this eventuality addressed on an L-23 by putting a ziptie around the gear lowering handle.
all of the club retracts I've flown have had the handle disabled, either with a ziptie or with safety wire

--
Dan Marotta

So you think having 3 green lamps in every real airplane is not a good idea to prevent landing on it's belly?

And when you deploy spoilers on the beginning of final lets say 300 AGL there is lots of time to put the gear down without geting panict by a "beep".
But I would also prefer the voice module...

A club used to fixed gear with a retract addition should definitely enforce a written landing checklist- backed up with an audible gear warning.

A switch on the spoiler/flaps ought to work. Instead of yet another buzzer ( easily confused with loggers & pda warnings ) I would put together something with a calm voice saying... "landing gear landing gear landing gear ..." until the pilot gets the message.

These ought to do the trick. Just add speaker, 12v-5v supply and microswitches.

https://www.adafruit.com/products/2133
https://www.adafruit.com/products/2130


On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 3:44:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Hmm, did anybody thought about accoustic gear warnings when deploying airbrakes in club gliders??
Or even more sophisticated "get the f... gear out before landing" voice warning???

just my 2ct.

;O)

On Sat, 16 May 2015 09:42:45 -0700, dr.patrese wrote:

So you think having 3 green lamps in every real airplane is not a good
idea to prevent landing on it's belly?

And when you deploy spoilers on the beginning of final lets say 300 AGL
there is lots of time to put the gear down without geting panict by a
"beep".
But I would also prefer the voice module...

If I was going to install a wheel warning I'd prefer a silent indicator
near the top of the panel to a noise of any sort, for instance a single
bi-colour LED that is off with wheel up and brakes closed, dim green when
the wheel is locked down and brighter red if the brakes are open with the
wheel up or not locked down.

Don't forget that there are circumstances when you'd want to open the
brakes when not intending to land: obvious examples are when shedding
height at the end of a flight preparatory to joining the circuit, to
avoid being sucked up into cloud or when coming down at the end of a high
wave flight. In these cases a loud buzzer or a vocal warning would be an
unwanted distraction.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 11:00:05 AM UTC-6, Sarah wrote:
A club used to fixed gear with a retract addition should definitely enforce a written landing checklist- backed up with an audible gear warning.

A switch on the spoiler/flaps ought to work. Instead of yet another buzzer ( easily confused with loggers & pda warnings ) I would put together something with a calm voice saying... "landing gear landing gear landing gear ..." until the pilot gets the message.

These ought to do the trick. Just add speaker, 12v-5v supply and microswitches.

https://www.adafruit.com/products/2133
https://www.adafruit.com/products/2130


On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 3:44:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Hmm, did anybody thought about accoustic gear warnings when deploying airbrakes in club gliders??
Or even more sophisticated "get the f... gear out before landing" voice warning???

just my 2ct.

;O)

Recently a Beech Baron slid in on its belly. No malfunction, just pilot error - this despite a suite of lights and audible warning systems.

Q. Didn't you hear the gear warning?
P. I couldn't hear it over the yelling from the passengers

Q. What were they yelling?
P. Put the @$%@!% gear down!

p.s. The Baron has fuel drains that extend below all other airframe structure when the gear is up so they touch the runway first in a gear-up landing.. This usually results in a fireball but luckily in this case the airplane just left a long streak ending in a puddle of evaporating 100LL.

At 16:06 16 May 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
That just reflects a poor training program!

In every club I've been a member of, there's always been an operations
manager on duty at the takeoff/landing line. It should be his job to
verify gear down on every club ship in the pattern. Good training,
observant people, and functional radios should prevent gear up landings.

I would leave any club that wired my gear handle down.


1. do you really want to put in place a system where it does not matter if
you land wheels up. That is one consequence of the sacrificial layer
application.
2. In the UK it is "forbidden" to warn a glider that he has not deployed
the U/c when on final approach. It is a fact that more serious accidents
have occurred when pilots concentrate on getting the U/c down and forget
about flying the glider. U/c warnings are frowned upon for the same reason,
especially those that are linked to the airbrakes. The theory is that less
damage is likely to ensue from a wheels up landing on an airfield than from
and untidy arrival by a pilot struggling with the U/c lever.
3. Disabling the U/c lever is not an approach I have even heard of before.
It would be illegal to do that over here.

Good training is the key, but as is oft said, there are two types of
pilots, those that have and those that are going to.