The 11 best things at the 2015 15m/Std Class Nationals at Harris Hill

It is fun! We should have an optional "show finish" line for contests where a real finish line is impractical.

John Cochrane BB

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 2:33:31 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
It is fun! We should have an optional "show finish" line for contests where a real finish line is impractical.

John Cochrane BB

I proposed this several years ago - you could have a 2 mile ring at 1000' as an initial point to a 50' line finish for timing purposes. You just need to ensure that people are coming from generally the same direction.

9B

On 06/08/2015 23:42, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 2:33:31 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
It is fun! We should have an optional "show finish" line for contests where a real finish line is impractical.

John Cochrane BB

I proposed this several years ago - you could have a 2 mile ring at 1000' as an initial point to a 50' line finish for timing purposes. You just need to ensure that people are coming from generally the same direction.

9B

We tried something similar on one task of the SA leg of the Sailplane
Grand Prix. We set a control turn point with a MINIMUM hight about 5km
out on the final leg. I believe the concept has merit both from a safety
and spectator perspectives.

The SGP rules encourage turnpoints with a maximum hight to promote
spectator points, a turn point with minimum hight was regarded as novel
but allowed. But some pilots missed the minimum hight and there was a
dispute over the penalties imposed. So we did not use it again during
that comp.

Having seen the SGP style contest, I think a "start gate closing time"
to curtail "start line roulette" and would improve spectator value,
reduce outlandings and consequential damage and make life easier for crews.

Well said IAN! +1

So somebody who has difficulty climbing out, or who takes a relight would get zero for the day because of the "start gate closing time"?

P9

Yes! Absolutely yes!!! If you can't start by the end of the allowed time you will be losing time because the clock has started and you are not on course.

And in exchange: 1) the gliders that start on time will be competing in more of a "race" (not "time trailing") 2) there is much less start gate roulette, 3) circling around in a big pack waiting for others to start first is reduced, 4) starting and then sneaking back to restart again (often head on thru other starting gliders) is reduced, 5) etc, etc. All of this loitering around and restarting is, IMO, a highly dangerous time in a sailplane contest. I dislike it. I want to use as much of the day as possible to race on the defined track with my competitors. Not play around doing aerobatics in the start cycle cylinder at close proximity all afternoon.

Everyone will have to deal with a circumstance of being late occasionally. Remember that opening a start window (just as with opening a start gate today) only happens after the CD has polled the advisors and been told that the task is fair and safe. Pilots struggling or low will have a chance to make it known. The window will be open long enough to relight and get back up. But their needs to be a limit to that charity.

If you are at a formula one race and your engine doesn't start, they do not wait for you to change your engine. They race and you don't.

If you are in a sailboat race and you are late to the starting line you are going to lose some time. Good luck. Try and catch up.

This rule makes the sport of soaring "more like" racing. Today it is really not racing unless you have happened to start together and you are on an assigned task.

OLC is great for free, open start times.

And remember this rule is not a single start time like Sailplane Grand Prix.. Their is still a significant range (say 1 hour, or 30 minutes) in which you can "choose" to start. It's just not ENDLESS (ridiculous) anymore.

I would love to see this adopted in SSA contests. It makes great sense to me.

Sean
7T

Not a zero for the day...but losing time if the window has opened, yes. Remember, the window only opens if the CD, advisors, and pilots have agreed to do so.

P9,

No, you would not necessarily get a zero for the day if you are not able to start by the end of the time window. That said, if you can't start by the end of the allowed time (perhaps one hour), you will be losing time because the clock has started and you are not on course. One hour is plenty of time to relight, perhaps 2x, etc.

And in exchange: 1) the gliders that start on time will be competing in more of a meaningful race (not "time trailing") 2) there is much less start gate roulette, 3) circling around in a big pack waiting for others to start first is reduced, 4) starting and then sneaking back to restart again (often head on thru other starting gliders) is reduced, 5) the time on task will become longer for a given day 6) etc, etc. All of this loitering around and restarting is, IMO, a highly dangerous time in a sailplane contest. I dislike it. I want to use as much of the day as possible to race on the defined race track with my competitors. Not play around doing aerobatics in the start cycle cylinder at close proximity all afternoon.

Everyone will have to deal with a circumstance of being tardy (starting after the clock has already started) occasionally. Remember that opening a start window (just as with opening a start gate today) only happens after the CD has polled the advisors and been told that the task is fair and safe. Pilots struggling or low will have a chance to make it known. The window will be open long enough to relight and get back up. But there needs to be a limit to that charity.

If you are at a formula one race and your engine doesn't start, they do not wait for you to change your engine. They race and you don't.

If you are in a sailboat race and you are late to the starting line you are going to lose some time. Good luck. Try and catch up.

This rule makes the sport of soaring "more like" racing. Today it is really not racing unless you have happened to start together and you are on an assigned task.

OLC is great for free, open start times.

And remember this rule is not a single start time like Sailplane Grand Prix.. There is still a significant range (say 1 hour, or 30 minutes) in which you can "choose" to start. It's just not ENDLESS (ridiculous) anymore.

I would love to see this adopted in SSA contests. It makes great sense to me.

Sean
7T

I would love to see this adopted in SSA contests. It makes great sense to me.

We tried to get some interest in this proposal a year or two ago. I had the same reaction -- on a reasonably consistent day in which most people can be ready to start, it would get us all out on course and end a lot of leeching and start roulette.

To be clear, the proposal is that the CD announces a "last start time" half hour or so after gate open. You can still start whenever you want, but if you start after last start time your start time is the last start time.

This was in part to accommodate the then groundswell for Grand Prix, as well as the big concern over gaggling and leeching that we see boiling up in the flarm debate. However, it died on the vine somehow with no interest. Perhaps we'll try again and see if anyone can be talked in to running a regional this way. A poll topic for sure.

John Cochrane BB