How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring ?

On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 8:09:43 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
From another thread recently, thought it might be a good topic to paw around with everyone...

For me, soaring is great fun. I've been doing it consistently for about 5 years now. I've met a bunch of amazing, great, kind people and have learned a tremendous amount about the sport (light years left to go). Thru and thru, as a group, soaring pilots, their friends and family are among the nicest, smartest most interesting people I have ever met. I am attracted to this immensely.

Part of the reason I have devoted time and energy to the sport is that am truly inspired by what competition/cross country pilots are capable of doing in gliders. I am still fascinated by it and want to be a part of it. This, for me, was huge. Glider pilots are amazing pilots, PERIOD.

I probably never would have truly learned of the sport (and what it really is at the highest levels), or been so attracted to it if my dad was not involved. Having a family member with a high performance glider, flying it regularly and promoting how amazing the sport could be all the time was key.. Having access to a high performance glider and a group of local friends who could mentor me and take me out on cross country flights shortly after I got my license was the key moment. Would I have got my license if the motivation was just flying around the airport? Probably not.

Those experiences flying with the Ionio boys on short, mentored cross country's "set the hook" for me and eventually led to me buying a glider so that I could fly with everyone rather than leave my dad back at the airport whenever I was flying. Of course once I bought my first glider so I could fly with this gang regularly, the learning curve grew dramatically. The hook set deeper. And so on.

Flying clubs are important to US soaring "health" I suppose but they also seem to lack in areas. They often don't have much to offer in terms of even moderate performance gliders. They often don't promote or in some cases even allow cross country.

It seems that European clubs are more into cross country which is more challenging and more rewarding than local flight, which I think gets old after a year or so. If some inspirational figure is not actively encouraging and facilitating cross country glider flight (the whole point of the sport I think) at that key moment in a glider pilots career, I think they come to the conclusion that they have checked the box and move on.

Obviously without glider clubs more focused on taking pilots into cross country levels, one has to have the financial means to do it on their own. I dont see that as a real problem as numerous 40:1 gliders are available for the same price as a small sailboat or powerboat, which almost everybody seems to have these days (jet skis, snowmobiles, etc). It's a matter of priority. Gliders I suppose are for one person (usually) where a boat (or other rec toy) is for the whole family.

But Europe seems to have an entirely different dynamic with respect to soaring. More youth, larger numbers, etc. U.S. numbers have been steadily declining for 25 years.

One thing I learned in business school. It's often better to adopt successful competitors methods even if at first you don't fully understand them yet. Our clubs (and the SSA) should be talking to European clubs and picking their brains for advise. I wonder how many have actually done that. Perhaps take a trip to Europe on summer and spend a few weeks with a successful club, talk to the people, etc.

Oddly, my flying is at a location that actually IDs itself as IONIA NON CLUB. They don't like the politics. :-).

The rules is a small thing overall but debating the rules is an important thing in terms of competition pilots. My suggestions usually would make getting into competition soaring simpler for the new pilot. I do think our rules are too complicated, but the rule makers are all GREAT PEOPLE, working hard and want nothing but the best for our sport.

Sean
7T

I will point out that European numbers have been in decline for a similar period, at a similar rate to the US, just starting from a higher plateau. GA numbers also seem to be in decline. For whatever reason, I just don't think aviation is the same magnetic for young imaginations that it once was.

In a word (or two) - "smart phones". How often do you see young people
that don't have their heads down and both thumbs working at near-light
speed?

On 8/15/2015 9:18 AM, jfitch wrote:
snip
I will point out that European numbers have been in decline for a similar period, at a similar rate to the US, just starting from a higher plateau. GA numbers also seem to be in decline. For whatever reason, I just don't think aviation is the same magnetic for young imaginations that it once was.

--
Dan Marotta

Reply to all 3 posts.

Sean, how much fun actually flying gliders is doesn't matter that much to the initial "sale" An interested visitor will at most get a 20 minute "sleigh ride" in a glider but spend hours on the ground at the airfield. The thing that makes the "deal" possible is the environment at the gliderport. Unfortunately, most are fly blown armpits of creation populated by not very friendly people. Guess which one makes the biggest impression?. What to do is obvious.

Yes, participation in all aspects of aviation is shrinking. Our bad press is mostly to blame. From the evening news to stand up comics, people are being frightened away from aviation. All of aviation needs to mount a PR campaign to offset this. We also need to become absolutely militant about reducing accidents. We are far too tolerant of unsafe practices.

Dan, be very careful about overgeneralising. I did an informal survey in shopping malls observing about 1000 young people. My numbers say only about 10% were fiddling with cellphones. That's still a big number but it's not 100%. My impression is they do this when they are bored and have nothing else to do. We can give them something more interesting.

Keep the overall numbers in mind. If 1,000 people walked onto US glider operations seeking flight training our infrastructure would be saturated. We just need to figure out how to find that 1,000 in a population of 310 million.

Bill Daniels

On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 9:39:44 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Reply to all 3 posts.

Sean, how much fun actually flying gliders is doesn't matter that much to the initial "sale" An interested visitor will at most get a 20 minute "sleigh ride" in a glider but spend hours on the ground at the airfield. The thing that makes the "deal" possible is the environment at the gliderport. Unfortunately, most are fly blown armpits of creation populated by not very friendly people. Guess which one makes the biggest impression?. What to do is obvious.

Yes, participation in all aspects of aviation is shrinking. Our bad press is mostly to blame. From the evening news to stand up comics, people are being frightened away from aviation. All of aviation needs to mount a PR campaign to offset this. We also need to become absolutely militant about reducing accidents. We are far too tolerant of unsafe practices.

Dan, be very careful about overgeneralising. I did an informal survey in shopping malls observing about 1000 young people. My numbers say only about 10% were fiddling with cellphones. That's still a big number but it's not 100%. My impression is they do this when they are bored and have nothing else to do. We can give them something more interesting.

Keep the overall numbers in mind. If 1,000 people walked onto US glider operations seeking flight training our infrastructure would be saturated. We just need to figure out how to find that 1,000 in a population of 310 million.

Bill Daniels

Bill and I talked about this at the Nationals a couple of years ago. There are three related challenges: intake, conversion and churn.

- Intake is the number of people taking an introductory ride, or are ins some way given an initial introduction to the sport.

- Conversion, is the percentage of people who transition to solo, licensed pilot, XC pilot, racing pilot.

- Churn, is the number of people who get all the way through the conversion "funnel", are in the sport for a (short or long) while then drop out.

The balance of these three effects determine the size of the racing pilot pool year by year.

A big chunk of churn is related to demographics and aging of the baby boom, some is related to the pressures of modern life. Retaining an older pilot for a few more years only buys you a few more years, but given the current profile of the pilot community there might be some work to do.

Intake is expensive, especially with a conversion rate like ours, which IIRC, is around 1% of those who are introduced to the sport actually become a licensed pilot, let alone a regular XC or racing pilot. This is partly a time and money issue, but at the higher levels it is one of finding a mentor to bring you along. At the RC meeting last year we hosted a gathering of local XC, OLC and racing pilots. The most profound comments were around the lack of an onramp to racing, to lean the skills by flying (following, really) a better pilot to see how it's done.

Team flying using the radio is allowed at the regional level. For better or worse Flarm following has reduces some of the "where'd you go?" issues associated with flying with someone. It's kind of fun to run around the course with other pilots from time to time. Bruno's hybrid events have seen a higher proportion of pilots flying at least one, but seemingly more that one, of the assigned tasks as a learning experience - and because it allows you to fly with buddies.

I think there is something that each of us could do in increasing the conversion rate of new XC and racing pilots.

9B

I think there is something that each of us could do in increasing the conversion rate of new XC and racing pilots.

In New Zealand, we're seeing the same decline as pretty much everywhere but there are a couple of programmes in place which might (just might) turn things around. Off-topic slightly, getting the kids re-engaged is about getting them to form their own gliding-and-social organisation (youthglide.org.nz) and that seems to be working quite well. I think Abby Delore gave a talk about Youthglide at the SSA conference a couple of years ago.

Back on-topic. After much head-scratching, a bunch of pilots decided that the key to retaining pilots was to get as many as possible into X Country - not denying that there's always a place for the pilots who just like to fly locally but it's the ones who go further who don't tend to drop out of the sport.

The next question was how to do get people into XC. One answer is to lower the (perceived) barriers to flying contest tasks. Most club members have access to club gliders but it's the whole mountain of "there's no way I could fly that far" that seemed to pose the biggest hurdle.

As a consequence, the Racing Committee have made a major revamp to the rules this season, to the effect that contest classes aren't so much based on "Std/15m", "Club", "18/20m" etc. but more "Beginner", "Intermediate" and "Advanced", i.e. based on pilot ability rather than glider performance. You can still fly with the big boys if you want (and get the points and prizes), but you can also turn up in a 18m glider and enter the "beginner" contest. We trialled the scheme informally last season and got a good number of new pilots to come along to contests and fly 75 - 150km tasks. Unsurprisingly, they had a blast! It'll be interesting to see the results this season.

Another thing that may help the decline is the sort of coaching programme that Australia is using for its cross-country pilots, which came out of a whole bunch of work that the Australian Institute of Sport developed, completely unrelated to gliding.

Interesting times. Watch this space.

DH

Dave,

These are fantastic ideas. I don't think anyone ran with the ideas at the SSA convention that it was presented at unfortunately.

Rather than a one class fits all, the idea of breaking classes (and perhaps tasks) down into smaller, appropriate groups seems very appealing (all the way around).

A few years ago we had some regional contests in Ionia. We generally had both FAI and a Sports class. Some really wanted the easier tasks that sports class typically offered (even some experienced pilots with 18m gliders). Others wanted to race with the "hot shots' in FAI even thought they had older gliders (knowing they would probably end up near the bottom). We didn't really know how to handle this. We could certainly see the desire these pilots had to do what "they wanted" rather than what "we wanted!" We of course let them do what they wanted.

In sailing, lots of classes and lots of trophies works very well. Rather than having 60 boats (for example) in one class and only one winner...why not have 4 classes of various skill level and experience. In sailing it might be broken down into professional, corinthian, Women, Jr's, etc. They all race the same race course, but are scored as an overall AND in the individual classes. Trophies and recognition is of equal importance for all classes. Also little awards such as most improved, best first time attendee, capsize award (see land out award) are well liked.

In soaring, I could see a breakdown by SSA ranking. 100-90, 90-80, 80-70, etc. We could also start a beginner class. I agree (no brainer really) that all involved would have more fun and more of a chance to compete with pilots of equal skill level with more segmented classes. It would be less intimidating. More trophies, more excitement and hopefully a steady graduation thru the ranks as one improves. People enjoy recognition and to feel a sense of accomplishment. When someone gets trophy in front of a crowd, it is a great moment for them and really "set's the hook" in a good way. We should be maximizing these moments for our contests participants AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE! Far more than we do today.

I personally could care less if I was racing with 30 gliders or 5 of my general skills level. The truth is that we always end up racing with 3-5 gliders anyway at most contests. The 3-5 of our skill level. Interesting points DH. Thanks for sharing!

Sean

On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 5:53:00 PM UTC-4, David Hirst wrote:

I think there is something that each of us could do in increasing the conversion rate of new XC and racing pilots.

In New Zealand, we're seeing the same decline as pretty much everywhere but there are a couple of programmes in place which might (just might) turn things around. Off-topic slightly, getting the kids re-engaged is about getting them to form their own gliding-and-social organisation (youthglide.org.nz) and that seems to be working quite well. I think Abby Delore gave a talk about Youthglide at the SSA conference a couple of years ago.

Back on-topic. After much head-scratching, a bunch of pilots decided that the key to retaining pilots was to get as many as possible into X Country - not denying that there's always a place for the pilots who just like to fly locally but it's the ones who go further who don't tend to drop out of the sport.

The next question was how to do get people into XC. One answer is to lower the (perceived) barriers to flying contest tasks. Most club members have access to club gliders but it's the whole mountain of "there's no way I could fly that far" that seemed to pose the biggest hurdle.

As a consequence, the Racing Committee have made a major revamp to the rules this season, to the effect that contest classes aren't so much based on "Std/15m", "Club", "18/20m" etc. but more "Beginner", "Intermediate" and "Advanced", i.e. based on pilot ability rather than glider performance. You can still fly with the big boys if you want (and get the points and prizes), but you can also turn up in a 18m glider and enter the "beginner" contest. We trialled the scheme informally last season and got a good number of new pilots to come along to contests and fly 75 - 150km tasks. Unsurprisingly, they had a blast! It'll be interesting to see the results this season..

Another thing that may help the decline is the sort of coaching programme that Australia is using for its cross-country pilots, which came out of a whole bunch of work that the Australian Institute of Sport developed, completely unrelated to gliding.

Interesting times. Watch this space.

DH

On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 7:25:13 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Dave,

These are fantastic ideas. I don't think anyone ran with the ideas at the SSA convention that it was presented at unfortunately.

Rather than a one class fits all, the idea of breaking classes (and perhaps tasks) down into smaller, appropriate groups seems very appealing (all the way around).

A few years ago we had some regional contests in Ionia. We generally had both FAI and a Sports class. Some really wanted the easier tasks that sports class typically offered (even some experienced pilots with 18m gliders).. Others wanted to race with the "hot shots' in FAI even thought they had older gliders (knowing they would probably end up near the bottom). We didn't really know how to handle this. We could certainly see the desire these pilots had to do what "they wanted" rather than what "we wanted!" We of course let them do what they wanted.

In sailing, lots of classes and lots of trophies works very well. Rather than having 60 boats (for example) in one class and only one winner...why not have 4 classes of various skill level and experience. In sailing it might be broken down into professional, corinthian, Women, Jr's, etc. They all race the same race course, but are scored as an overall AND in the individual classes. Trophies and recognition is of equal importance for all classes. Also little awards such as most improved, best first time attendee, capsize award (see land out award) are well liked.

In soaring, I could see a breakdown by SSA ranking. 100-90, 90-80, 80-70, etc. We could also start a beginner class. I agree (no brainer really) that all involved would have more fun and more of a chance to compete with pilots of equal skill level with more segmented classes. It would be less intimidating. More trophies, more excitement and hopefully a steady graduation thru the ranks as one improves. People enjoy recognition and to feel a sense of accomplishment. When someone gets trophy in front of a crowd, it is a great moment for them and really "set's the hook" in a good way. We should be maximizing these moments for our contests participants AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE! Far more than we do today.

I personally could care less if I was racing with 30 gliders or 5 of my general skills level. The truth is that we always end up racing with 3-5 gliders anyway at most contests. The 3-5 of our skill level. Interesting points DH. Thanks for sharing!

Sean

On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 5:53:00 PM UTC-4, David Hirst wrote:

I think there is something that each of us could do in increasing the conversion rate of new XC and racing pilots.

In New Zealand, we're seeing the same decline as pretty much everywhere but there are a couple of programmes in place which might (just might) turn things around. Off-topic slightly, getting the kids re-engaged is about getting them to form their own gliding-and-social organisation (youthglide.org.nz) and that seems to be working quite well. I think Abby Delore gave a talk about Youthglide at the SSA conference a couple of years ago.

Back on-topic. After much head-scratching, a bunch of pilots decided that the key to retaining pilots was to get as many as possible into X Country - not denying that there's always a place for the pilots who just like to fly locally but it's the ones who go further who don't tend to drop out of the sport.

The next question was how to do get people into XC. One answer is to lower the (perceived) barriers to flying contest tasks. Most club members have access to club gliders but it's the whole mountain of "there's no way I could fly that far" that seemed to pose the biggest hurdle.

As a consequence, the Racing Committee have made a major revamp to the rules this season, to the effect that contest classes aren't so much based on "Std/15m", "Club", "18/20m" etc. but more "Beginner", "Intermediate" and "Advanced", i.e. based on pilot ability rather than glider performance. You can still fly with the big boys if you want (and get the points and prizes), but you can also turn up in a 18m glider and enter the "beginner" contest. We trialled the scheme informally last season and got a good number of new pilots to come along to contests and fly 75 - 150km tasks. Unsurprisingly, they had a blast! It'll be interesting to see the results this season.

Another thing that may help the decline is the sort of coaching programme that Australia is using for its cross-country pilots, which came out of a whole bunch of work that the Australian Institute of Sport developed, completely unrelated to gliding.

Interesting times. Watch this space.

DH

Some things I have been involved in
Mifflin "rookie" contest. Entry by reverse seeding so all the new guys get in. Then run classes every day before flying and debrief after flying. This was quite popular and hopefully will be repeated.
Rookie School- actively teaching the new folks how to fly a contest and mentoring each every day. This has had good results in terms of safety and getting folks going with good results. We also ask the top rookie to give "winner's" speech at pilots meetings.
Contest riding- most everyone in our club who wants to has gotten to fly/ride in one of our 2 seat gliders in a contest. We are seeing some of these folks become contestants. Even those that don't seem to be much more likely to start flying XC.
It may seem obvious but the more we welcome and encourage those that have an interest, the more will stay and thrive.
FWIW
UH

We should consider formalizing this and mapping it into our contest results, website etc on a standard basis.

If people know they have a chance to compete at their level and "win" a level category, they will probably be more excited to compete.

Instead of a straight linear SSA Pilot Ranking list, break it up into segments so we have several champions. The same breakdown for contest results. Overall and then by segments.

100-90 - Hot Shots
89.9-80 - Advanced
79.9-70 - Intermediate
Beginner (first 2 (3?) years since first contest?)
Jr.
Female

Jr. and Female would be ranked in up to 3 categories (overall, advanced (for example) and Jr. or Female. 3 times on the podium! 3 medals!

Instead of just one, we would have 6 ranking lists with 6 champions on the contest results page of the SSA website! We could also start some perpetual trophies for the SSA convention awards banquet.

We could also do OLC individual achievement medals and club trophies at the SSA convention.

The more winners and recognition that we can produce, the better! We are leaving considerable "magic" (opportunity) on the table at contest by not recognizing more pilots at various skill/experience levels. People simply love having a shot at a trophy. They love being recognized. It may just keep them coming back. It may just inspire others to give it a try. Not to beat the superstars, but to win at their current level against pilots of a similar skill level.

Medals, trophies, etc. are fairly inexpensive while being enormously valuable to those who receive them in front of their peers (see Tony Condon getting on the podium for the USA team bronze at the 13.5 meter World Championship today).

We have a nice, content rich SSA website...it would be easy to have a special "podium" page highlighting all these new rankings, awards and trophies. I'll bet it would be the most viewed page before too long. It would create buzz and these pilots recieving new recognition would love it!

We need to try these things! How about now for next season?

Sean

On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 2:53:00 PM UTC-7, David Hirst wrote:

I think there is something that each of us could do in increasing the conversion rate of new XC and racing pilots.

In New Zealand, we're seeing the same decline as pretty much everywhere but there are a couple of programmes in place which might (just might) turn things around. Off-topic slightly, getting the kids re-engaged is about getting them to form their own gliding-and-social organisation (youthglide.org.nz) and that seems to be working quite well. I think Abby Delore gave a talk about Youthglide at the SSA conference a couple of years ago.

Back on-topic. After much head-scratching, a bunch of pilots decided that the key to retaining pilots was to get as many as possible into X Country - not denying that there's always a place for the pilots who just like to fly locally but it's the ones who go further who don't tend to drop out of the sport.

The next question was how to do get people into XC. One answer is to lower the (perceived) barriers to flying contest tasks. Most club members have access to club gliders but it's the whole mountain of "there's no way I could fly that far" that seemed to pose the biggest hurdle.

As a consequence, the Racing Committee have made a major revamp to the rules this season, to the effect that contest classes aren't so much based on "Std/15m", "Club", "18/20m" etc. but more "Beginner", "Intermediate" and "Advanced", i.e. based on pilot ability rather than glider performance. You can still fly with the big boys if you want (and get the points and prizes), but you can also turn up in a 18m glider and enter the "beginner" contest. We trialled the scheme informally last season and got a good number of new pilots to come along to contests and fly 75 - 150km tasks. Unsurprisingly, they had a blast! It'll be interesting to see the results this season..

Another thing that may help the decline is the sort of coaching programme that Australia is using for its cross-country pilots, which came out of a whole bunch of work that the Australian Institute of Sport developed, completely unrelated to gliding.

Interesting times. Watch this space.

DH

Interesting ideas. It has been tried at a small scale in the US in places with good effect as far as I can tell. Maybe there is something that can be done more formally. I do get the sense that people don't want to spend too much time at the "kids table" so being able to hang with the more experienced pilots (in the air and on the ground) seems to be important aspect of all of this, That was the potential to learn from more experienced pilots is opened up.

9B

My $0.02 from a newly mint pilot aspiring for XC.

First of all I think there is a unique internal fortitude that glider pilots have. And let me also say, I think it’s even more so for the XC pilot. I have met pilots from varying skill and experience that some gave me the impression that they were terrified of XC. Being a student gave me a unique advantage of asking questions versus someone with experience would probably not have asked those types of questions I had asked. I also realize that individuals have their own comfort level. Now with that said, I think that internal fortitude can be broken down into two areas; churn and retention of when pilots either do not seek XC or the student drops out. Either way, it affects long-term retention.

I do not know if there are two ideas or paths to solo but I was on the path of training to know almost all there is about soaring prior to solo. I think I would have stopped training if I did not know the end game of XC. I think a student should solo as soon as practical with the guidance that much more training is ahead. The student will discover more quickly if they have the internal fortitude to continue. To over-train a student for solo creates a long path for later discouragement and only ties up club time. The only advantage seems to be the clubs increase in revenue or CFI’s log time.

Now for XC: My last CFI said if I did not XC and only glided around the field that I would eventually give up soaring. This is from a well-known, high hr, high student CFI.
From his past experience as well as my observation of the millennia’s and Gen-X, I think as others have mentioned that exposure to XC from the beginning of training is key. I do think the internal fortitude required of experienced or seasoned pilots for XC is greater. Or put another way, the older the pilot the longer it takes to break the home field barrier.
I could be in this later category, however, I also have not completed my Silver Badge. I could have attempted XC and landed out by now, but (1) I know the hassle of retrieve of my heavy glider, (2) gaining more comfort with new vario and GPS, (3) just enjoying soaring around, (4) realize I need to work on perfect thermaling skills, (5) would like booming conditions for first XC to ensure success. I currently do a lot of scratching and only do this around home field and would not attempt during XC. But with average cloud base of 3k and average glide at 2-2.5K, that does not give much room to travel far and have a good margin for land out.

Oh, another observation which could be an obstacle to XC is many gliders trailers I’ve seen at clubs I would not pull down the road. Either the pilot is experienced enough to get back home, or does not care about leaving area, or is older or out of shape and does not want to deal with retrieve. Trailer care and upkeep should be talked about more at clubs and with students. If a student never hears anything about trailer maintenance then acquires own trailer, I think they are more likely to neglect. As well as if they see neglected trailers about, they may follow suit out of sub-consciousness.

Once I have achieved my silver badge, I would like to enter a XC comp. And I think the badges are all a pilot needs for motivation prior to first comp. I do like the idea of team comps where an experience pilot has two less experienced pilots to bring along. I also like the idea of fun comps, and fun fly in’s that have an element of XC. I also think a yearly training camp/comp made up of 2 place gliders would be fun and very beneficial. One of the biggest obstacles I see to camps and comps is proximity. Within 300 miles would be ideal, but at least each region. If one compares any other sports, soaring has less comps.

I was fortunate to have been able to visit 6 different facilities to soar at after acquiring my ticket. The people I have met and the views, and tips have been great. I’m at the point where I’m acquiring skill, and do not foresee myself as CFI or top comp pilot, but I hope I can pass something to others to help our sport.