If You've Flown a FLARM Stealth Contest, Vote Here

Yeah, 9B, they should definitely inspect you and your glider very carefully next summer. You're a troublemaker.

Hope to see you there.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Yeah, 9B, they should definitely inspect you and your glider very carefully next summer. You're a troublemaker.

Hope to see you there.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 10:30:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Lots of earnest opinions, some more strident than others. Lots of confident statements about what works, doesn't work, is possible, is futile, is inevitable.

So let's keep it simple: if you have flown in a contest at any level where stealth was mandated (not necessarily mandatory FLARM, but if FLARM was used, it had to be in stealth mode), what was your experience?

If you HAVEN'T flown in a stealth-mandatory contest, DON'T POST. You had your chance to speculate and make your opinions heard (some of you many, many times) over in "Is FLARM Helpful?" We could run this over on Survey Monkey, et al., but I think it's useful to track the responses on this forum..

My view based on the Elmira nats in 2015: FLARM under stealth provided the collision avoidance and situational awareness intended without changing the tactics or strategy of the competitive flying significantly.

My vote: "yes" for mandatory stealth mode.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Here is the data from the pilot poll limited to pilots who reported at Harris Hill Participants

Flarm in Nationals
FlarmMandatory 11
OrgnzrChoice 5
PilotChoice 7

Stealth In Nationals
StealthMandatory 13
OrgnzrChoice 4
PilotChoice 6
StealthProhibited 1

John Godfrey (QT)
RC Chair

QT,

Can I infer three things?

1. Some pilots didn't answer all questions (since the totals are slightly different for the two questions).
2. Only about 2/3 of the 33 pilots at Elmira responded to the poll.
3. Responses to the SSA Pilot Opinion Poll aren't anonymous.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

On Saturday, December 5, 2015 at 7:43:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
QT,

Can I infer three things?

1. Some pilots didn't answer all questions (since the totals are slightly different for the two questions).
2. Only about 2/3 of the 33 pilots at Elmira responded to the poll.
3. Responses to the SSA Pilot Opinion Poll aren't anonymous.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Question 1 on the survey was what nationals did you fly last year.

I'm actually pleased this case that a pilot's answer to one question can be linked to his/her answers to other questions. We should note, however, that answers to the first two questions--which contain borderline personally identifiable information--could be used by the survey authors to narrow the identity of a respondent. While this is hardly worthy of Edward Snowden, it might encourage some of us to be more temperate in answering the last two "tell us what you really think" questions.

Alternatively, dispense with the promised anonymity entirely next year and collect enough data to know, for example, how many of those with strong opinions about ADS-B or transponders or the siting of national contests are flying a full-race Open Class supership vs. a 20+ year-old Standard or Club Class glider. Soaring pilots don't appear to be shy about expressing their opinions for the record.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Missing the issue, I think.

Vote here if you will refuse to go to contests that mandate stealth mode.

Vote here if you will not run a contest that mandates stealth mode -- either you think it's unwise, you think it adds to your legal liability, or you think it's a pointless PITA.

The RC used to be concerned above all about participation; attracting organizers (harder and harder) and pilots. If 11 pilots are annoyed that someone might be able to leech them from 4 miles away rather than have to stick on their tail to follow them around visually, and those pilots want some complex enforcement mechanism to stop it, well, tough. Just like the complaints we got over 0.001 handicap differences, 1 pound/sq ft wingloading differences, and so on.

Chip's phrasing of the question takes for granted that we have the same number of pilots and contests at which to play with the rules. An unwise assumption.

The sentiment out west where I am now is pretty clear: for many pilots, this could be the the final definitive excuse not to come to contests. OLC, "fun meets" and "fly ins" are taking over from sanctioned contests.

As I proselytize among the OLC, I hear "the tasks are too short, I don't like the tight gaggles, I don't want to take out my true-trak or satellite weather, I want to talk to my buddies on the radio" and so on. "I don't want to hobble my flarm" both for safety and fun (let's not forget the 40% who say it adds to their overall enjoyment, and the many respondents here who say they use flarm to keep track of buddies on XC flights) will add one more to the list, and hard to argue with.

As I talk to potential contest managers to drum up support for sanctioned regionals, I hear long complaints about the complexity of procedures. Dealing with the inevitable snafus of stealth mode enforcement? Not happening. This will be at best one more fictional rule with no enforcement (weights at regionals, disabling of AHRS, no cell phones or data in flight, no radio communication).

We need to get back to the principles of fun, participation, simplicity, safety. If some bozo thinks he's going to with the nationals by staring at his flarm radar and not looking out the window, good luck to him. If he gets 23d place rather than 35th, well, ok.

John Cochrane BB

On Saturday, December 5, 2015 at 5:20:56 AM UTC-8, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 10:30:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Lots of earnest opinions, some more strident than others. Lots of confident statements about what works, doesn't work, is possible, is futile, is inevitable.

So let's keep it simple: if you have flown in a contest at any level where stealth was mandated (not necessarily mandatory FLARM, but if FLARM was used, it had to be in stealth mode), what was your experience?

If you HAVEN'T flown in a stealth-mandatory contest, DON'T POST. You had your chance to speculate and make your opinions heard (some of you many, many times) over in "Is FLARM Helpful?" We could run this over on Survey Monkey, et al., but I think it's useful to track the responses on this forum.

My view based on the Elmira nats in 2015: FLARM under stealth provided the collision avoidance and situational awareness intended without changing the tactics or strategy of the competitive flying significantly.

My vote: "yes" for mandatory stealth mode.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Here is the data from the pilot poll limited to pilots who reported at Harris Hill Participants

Flarm in Nationals
FlarmMandatory 11
OrgnzrChoice 5
PilotChoice 7

Stealth In Nationals
StealthMandatory 13
OrgnzrChoice 4
PilotChoice 6
StealthProhibited 1

John Godfrey (QT)
RC Chair

The vote from Elmira was 13 for stealth mandatory out of a field of 41 entrants. That is a less than ringing endorsement.

On Saturday, December 5, 2015 at 5:05:14 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, December 5, 2015 at 5:20:56 AM UTC-8, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 10:30:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Lots of earnest opinions, some more strident than others. Lots of confident statements about what works, doesn't work, is possible, is futile, is inevitable.

So let's keep it simple: if you have flown in a contest at any level where stealth was mandated (not necessarily mandatory FLARM, but if FLARM was used, it had to be in stealth mode), what was your experience?

If you HAVEN'T flown in a stealth-mandatory contest, DON'T POST. You had your chance to speculate and make your opinions heard (some of you many, many times) over in "Is FLARM Helpful?" We could run this over on Survey Monkey, et al., but I think it's useful to track the responses on this forum.

My view based on the Elmira nats in 2015: FLARM under stealth provided the collision avoidance and situational awareness intended without changing the tactics or strategy of the competitive flying significantly.

My vote: "yes" for mandatory stealth mode.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Here is the data from the pilot poll limited to pilots who reported at Harris Hill Participants

Flarm in Nationals
FlarmMandatory 11
OrgnzrChoice 5
PilotChoice 7

Stealth In Nationals
StealthMandatory 13
OrgnzrChoice 4
PilotChoice 6
StealthProhibited 1

John Godfrey (QT)
RC Chair

The vote from Elmira was 13 for stealth mandatory out of a field of 41 entrants. That is a less than ringing endorsement.

32 contestants at that contest which includes 1 guest pilot. I estimate 5 flew with portable classic FLARM and at least 7 had no FLARM at all. Total respondents to the poll question 24 from the contest.

XC

Stealth In Nationals
StealthMandatory 13
OrgnzrChoice 4
PilotChoice 6
StealthProhibited 1

Looking at the both question you can see a similar number of folks don't think FLARM should be required at all.

I guess you can read the results however you want.

XC