Flarm and stealth

As the US gets ready for the arrival of flarm, a big question on many
US pilot's minds is, what about stealth mode? From an armchair
piloting point of view, it seems that seeing gliders in a several km
range, with climb rates attached, could be a major competitive
issue. With this in mind, whether to require stealth mode in
competitions is being actively debated.

I'd like to hear from our European friends with lots of contest
experience, just how this is playing out. Do you find that non-stealth
displays are in fact very useful? Where stealth mode is either not
required or not enforced (WGC), is it becoming de rigeur to have a
secondary display and follow the gaggle with your flarm? Or are the
theoretical advantages overstated, and in the real world flarm
leeching isn't that big an issue; you're better off looking out the
window and seeing who is racked up in a tight turn?

Where stealth mode is required, is it being enforced, and how much of
a pain is that proving to be? Certainly the obvious protocol,
involving cockpit checks for hidden flarms, daily submission of flight
logs, and penalties for absence of such logs, seems rather onerous.

Thanks in advance. We are fortunate to have your experience so we
don't have to rethink this all from scratch!

John Cochrane

Clarification for US pilots: "Stealth mode" means other people can't
see you from a great distance, nor see your climb rate, on devices
attached to flarm. In return, you can't see them or their climb rates
either; they only show up when they pose a collision threat. If you
select "stealth mode" this is reflected in the flarm IGC file, so
scorers can verify the setting.

But I'm hoping for more actual experience from Europe than theoretical
opinions from the US!

John Cochrane

On Oct 28, 5:06*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
Clarification for US pilots: "Stealth mode" means other people can't
see you from a great distance, nor see your climb rate, on devices
attached to flarm. In return, you can't see them or their climb rates
either; they only show up when they pose a collision threat. If you
select "stealth mode" this is reflected in the flarm IGC file, so
scorers can verify the setting.

But I'm hoping for more actual experience from Europe than theoretical
opinions from the US!

John Cochrane

Keep in mind that Powerflarm is said to have longer range than
Flarm.

-T8

On Oct 28, 2:06*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

To heck with stealth, what about ECM?

On Oct 28, 5:29*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
To heck with stealth, what about ECM?

That's why the payload is proprietary and encrypted ;-)
See ya, Dave

On Oct 28, 4:29*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Oct 28, 2:06*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

To heck with stealth, what about ECM?

too close for missiles i'm switching to guns?

Originally Posted by Tony[_5_]

On Oct 28, 4:29*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Oct 28, 2:06*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

To heck with stealth, what about ECM?

too close for missiles i'm switching to guns?

Yes I think.

On Oct 28, 2:29*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Oct 28, 2:06*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

To heck with stealth, what about ECM?

You can already "chaff" other competitors - water ballast!

I´ve never flown in a serious competition with FLARM, but I have flown
near a competition site. Based on my own experience with competition
pilots blasting through thermals with circling gliders and also on
reports from Szeged I strongly hope stealth mode gets dropped
completely. This would at least give other pilots an early warning
that a cloud of gliders is approaching and allow them to avoid flying
close to a few "pilots" with more adrenaline than responsibility.

Michael

It seems that Flarm will give you the "ability to see climb rates of
gliders out in front" either through
* PDA software processing
* seeing a large gaggle which is a good indicator
* seeing relative height change between you and others while circling

I think this will increase gaggling since it will be even more
important to start last. Result - everyone starts late.

So, I think, Stealth mode will be a requirement in comps. If a pilot
switches to Open mode then there should be some kind of penalty.
Switching back and forth between Stealth (when things are peachy) and
Open (when low) should not be allowed.

Peter