RC madness

UH,

Its ALL RC aircraft between .5 lbs and 55lbs. A different catagory of rules apply for 55lbs.

The AMA has negotiated drones only, and expected that. This came as a huge shock to many. The FAA, in their wisdom, changed to scope to included ALL RC aircraft between .5 and 55 lbs at the last moments. All limited to below 400 ft. which is comical for RC sailplanes and most high performance jets and electric aircraft.

Sean

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
UH,

Its ALL RC aircraft between .5 lbs and 55lbs. A different catagory of rules apply for 55lbs.

The AMA has negotiated drones only, and expected that. This came as a huge shock to many. The FAA, in their wisdom, changed to scope to included ALL RC aircraft between .5 and 55 lbs at the last moments. All limited to below 400 ft. which is comical for RC sailplanes and most high performance jets and electric aircraft.

Sean

The 400' rule is the problem at this point. The FAA it seems is trying to make it mandatory in the registration process. You can not register unless you agree to the 400' limit. If you do not agree, you can not register, and can be fined and prosecuted. I am told that this is in direct conflict with the existing "FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 HR 658", which states that the FAA can not place additional restrictions on model aircraft.

Mike

At 04:47 22 December 2015, JS wrote:
Thought the "RC madness" thread would have a link to a crazy Radio
Controlled glider contest or DS video.
Jim


Me too, seeing that the FAA has just mandated that RC Soaring Pilots must
now register themselves and their sailplanes in a national database.

At 04:47 22 December 2015, JS wrote:
Thought the "RC madness" thread would have a link to a crazy Radio
Controlled glider contest or DS video.
Jim


Me too, seeing that the FAA has just mandated that RC Soaring Pilots must
now register themselves and their sailplanes in a national database.

Leeching scenarios

1) I am in the lead going into the final day. If I start at the same time
as the guy in 2nd place and follow him tightly around the task finishing
within a minute or two, I have won the competition. Oh, but he launched
after me, how do I find him? Flarm will do it.

2) I am in second place going in to the last day and do not want the leader
to find me before the start because if I can get away without being
followed I stand a better chance of taking the pot. Place foil over aerial?
Must have been a malfunction!

3) I am reaching the bottom of my soaring band and need to find a climb. Do
I take the 2kt climb I have found here or fly 3kms ~ 300ft to the 5kt climb
that another glider has just taken at my height? Flarm does it again.

4) I am team flying but no longer need to wait at the top of a thermal for
my partner to say he is ready to leave (in order to stay in touch with each
other) as he can follow comfortably at a distance when he is ready.

5) I am in the glide flying at my chosen glide speed for the 4kt thermal I
am expecting to find. I see on the Flarm display that the thermals ahead
are actually producing 6kts not 4. Stick forward!

6) I am in the glide flying at my chosen glide speed for the 4kt thermal I
am expecting to find. I see on the Flarm display that the thermals ahead
are actually only producing 2kts not 4. Ease up.

7) My partner calls that he is in a 6kt thermal somewhere up ahead. I can't
see him. He could give me a code which I could then decode to identify
where but that takes time and effort for both pilots. A glance at the Flarm
display tells me whether I can risk a glide to join him.

8) I am flying an AAT and have entered the first area. I am considering
turning early because the sky ahead looks poor. Wait, let's check the Flarm
display to see what the other guys are doing ahead and verify that
decision.

9) I am flying an AAT and am on the penultimate leg. The last leg is a
reciprocal to the finish. Knowing whether pilots are fat or struggling on
final glide will help me decide my tactics for the remainder of the flight.
I will check with Flarm!

If you do not consider that Flarm and Flarm leeching can improve a pilots'
result (even the winners) then you are unlikely to be an experienced
competition pilot.

Jim

At 12:26 22 December 2015, Jim White wrote:
Leeching scenarios

1) I am in the lead going into the final day. If I start at the same
tim
as the guy in 2nd place and follow him tightly around the task
finishin
within a minute or two, I have won the competition. Oh, but he
launche
after me, how do I find him? Flarm will do it.

2) I am in second place going in to the last day and do not want
the leade
to find me before the start because if I can get away without bein
followed I stand a better chance of taking the pot. Place foil over
aerial
Must have been a malfunction!

3) I am reaching the bottom of my soaring band and need to find
a climb. D
I take the 2kt climb I have found here or fly 3kms ~ 300ft to the
5kt clim
that another glider has just taken at my height? Flarm does it
again.

4) I am team flying but no longer need to wait at the top of a
thermal fo
my partner to say he is ready to leave (in order to stay in touch
with eac
other) as he can follow comfortably at a distance when he is
ready.

5) I am in the glide flying at my chosen glide speed for the 4kt
thermal
am expecting to find. I see on the Flarm display that the thermals
ahea
are actually producing 6kts not 4. Stick forward!

6) I am in the glide flying at my chosen glide speed for the 4kt
thermal
am expecting to find. I see on the Flarm display that the thermals
ahea
are actually only producing 2kts not 4. Ease up.

7) My partner calls that he is in a 6kt thermal somewhere up
ahead. I can'
see him. He could give me a code which I could then decode to
identif
where but that takes time and effort for both pilots. A glance at
the Flar
display tells me whether I can risk a glide to join him.

8) I am flying an AAT and have entered the first area. I am
considerin
turning early because the sky ahead looks poor. Wait, let's check
the Flar
display to see what the other guys are doing ahead and verify tha
decision.

9) I am flying an AAT and am on the penultimate leg. The last leg
is
reciprocal to the finish. Knowing whether pilots are fat or
struggling o
final glide will help me decide my tactics for the remainder of the
flight
I will check with Flarm!

If you do not consider that Flarm and Flarm leeching can improve
a pilots
result (even the winners) then you are unlikely to be an
experience
competition pilot.

Jim

So here is the thing. Why consider a solution as dangerous as
crippling FLARM when there are other solutions. It is not necessary
for TPs to be ground features anymore, they can be any GPS co-
ordinate. So instead of a competition director setting the task with
TPs why not just set the task length and allow pilots to choose their
TP, not restricted to any point except perhaps the last TP before the
airfield. You could even require a finish track without specifying a
point. You could specify the number of TPs to be used and even
minimum leg lengths but the pilots select their own TP, which they
can keep to themselves or share, as long as they file the task with
the competition before launch. This allows team flying but someone
wanting to "hide" is able to do so. It is a sort of AAT set on distance
as opposed to time.
Solves the leeching problem and as an additional benefit means that
gliders will not longer be forced closer to others at TPs.
I know it is not perfect but it is another valid solution, perhaps not
an attractive one but there again crippling FLARM is not particularly
attractive.

That's called OLC. Sadly, the RC is "studying" that as well... ;-)

Probably will be a new US task type by spring. ;-)

Sigh.

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 10:00:07 AM UTC-5, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 12:26 22 December 2015, Jim White wrote:
Leeching scenarios

1) I am in the lead going into the final day. If I start at the same
tim
as the guy in 2nd place and follow him tightly around the task
finishin
within a minute or two, I have won the competition. Oh, but he
launche
after me, how do I find him? Flarm will do it.

2) I am in second place going in to the last day and do not want
the leade
to find me before the start because if I can get away without bein
followed I stand a better chance of taking the pot. Place foil over
aerial
Must have been a malfunction!

3) I am reaching the bottom of my soaring band and need to find
a climb. D
I take the 2kt climb I have found here or fly 3kms ~ 300ft to the
5kt clim
that another glider has just taken at my height? Flarm does it
again.

4) I am team flying but no longer need to wait at the top of a
thermal fo
my partner to say he is ready to leave (in order to stay in touch
with eac
other) as he can follow comfortably at a distance when he is
ready.

5) I am in the glide flying at my chosen glide speed for the 4kt
thermal
am expecting to find. I see on the Flarm display that the thermals
ahea
are actually producing 6kts not 4. Stick forward!

6) I am in the glide flying at my chosen glide speed for the 4kt
thermal
am expecting to find. I see on the Flarm display that the thermals
ahea
are actually only producing 2kts not 4. Ease up.

7) My partner calls that he is in a 6kt thermal somewhere up
ahead. I can'
see him. He could give me a code which I could then decode to
identif
where but that takes time and effort for both pilots. A glance at
the Flar
display tells me whether I can risk a glide to join him.

8) I am flying an AAT and have entered the first area. I am
considerin
turning early because the sky ahead looks poor. Wait, let's check
the Flar
display to see what the other guys are doing ahead and verify tha
decision.

9) I am flying an AAT and am on the penultimate leg. The last leg
is
reciprocal to the finish. Knowing whether pilots are fat or
struggling o
final glide will help me decide my tactics for the remainder of the
flight
I will check with Flarm!

If you do not consider that Flarm and Flarm leeching can improve
a pilots
result (even the winners) then you are unlikely to be an
experience
competition pilot.

Jim

So here is the thing. Why consider a solution as dangerous as
crippling FLARM when there are other solutions. It is not necessary
for TPs to be ground features anymore, they can be any GPS co-
ordinate. So instead of a competition director setting the task with
TPs why not just set the task length and allow pilots to choose their
TP, not restricted to any point except perhaps the last TP before the
airfield. You could even require a finish track without specifying a
point. You could specify the number of TPs to be used and even
minimum leg lengths but the pilots select their own TP, which they
can keep to themselves or share, as long as they file the task with
the competition before launch. This allows team flying but someone
wanting to "hide" is able to do so. It is a sort of AAT set on distance
as opposed to time.
Solves the leeching problem and as an additional benefit means that
gliders will not longer be forced closer to others at TPs.
I know it is not perfect but it is another valid solution, perhaps not
an attractive one but there again crippling FLARM is not particularly
attractive.

i'll keep my reply short. because that's silly and it would ruin racing. at that point it's basically justa glider meet-up. what we should do is fly more AST and keep the AAT cyliders smaller than they are.

It's not crippling flarm if you ask me. Now read that twice. If you ask me.... that will be my reply. i think everyone in the "if i can't see everyone camp" are being too conservative. flarm should notify of impending threats, and 1 mile notice is plenty, 2 miles for oncomimg traffic. if my math is righ, at 300 MPH closing speed (both gliders effectively flat out), that still gives you 12 seconds to SEE AND AVOID the traffic. count out 12 seconds and think about how long that is.

On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 11:47:27 PM UTC-5, JS wrote:
Thought the "RC madness" thread would have a link to a crazy Radio Controlled glider contest or DS video.
Jim

Yeppers, and now we all have to register our RC drones with the FAA...... Well... maybe not.... until we crash it and we get found out... :-(.....

Wait, what is this thread about???

On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 1:22:32 PM UTC-5, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
From Rules Committee:

"This is where we are as of today for 2016 FLARM-related rules that will be recommended to the SSA BOD (note that rules are proposed by the RC and approved by the SSA BOD - this year at the Greenville convention):

1. For National Contests:
* Organizers may request a waiver to require the use of FLARM, otherwise carrying a FLARM is at the pilots' option
* Regardless of whether a FLARM is mandatory or optional in a National Contest, if a FLARM is used it must be operated in Competition (i.e. the expected derivative of the current Stealth mode)"


I simply can not believe that RC would propose to use technology that does not exist. You have no clue what it takes to create and test software.

You guys would not survive in a corporate world a month.

Thank God, there is SSA BOD to stop this madness. It would have been a different story if the technology already existed and it was proven and field tested.

Have a Marry Christmas, Andrzej

i really hope to win a nationals without flarm just to really shake the **** up!...oh, and because i'd be national champion.