Contest participation

On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 5:28:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'll throw two cents more into this discussion. I think xc soaring has always been a minority persuite in soaring. The vast majority of soaring pilots do not own their own ships, they are dependant upon club ships. It started this way and it is still this way. That being said, most clubs, with a few exceptions, do not place much emphasis on xc due to the hassle of retrieves etc. thus we get very little 'club' participation in contests. Those guys who own their own ships, for the most part are content to hang around doing local flying for the same reasons, the hassle factor of xc. When we eliminate the club/non owners and the 'happy to fly local/private owners from the pool, their ain't much left for contests.

I think the big stumbling block to the entire situation is the lack of desire to simply fly xc. Lack of a personal machine=inability to go anywhere (for most guys). The issue comes down to DESIRE. A guy who has desire to do something will always find a way and find the cash that fulfill it. If your talking about engendering desire in a prospective contest guy, the 'buddy around a task' approach in a Duo is a helpfull way to go to prompt someone to get involved in contest flying. We need to recognize there is an intimidation factor involved in xc and we have done it to ourselves. Guys see 18 meter ships 40+/1 zipping around a 100km xc on a sunny afternoon and then they look at themselves and think 'man I'm not very good, what if I land out?' We have looked at outlandings as a sign of failure instead of accomplishment! Once we start to engender an understanding that an outlandings is no big deal, a learning experience, and possibly a sign that we took our abilities to the edge of their limits, then guys will be more enthusiastic about going for it.

As for an entrance ramp for guys to get into contest flying, there are plenty as has been demonstrated in earlier posts. I have never been in a contest but I spent five years crewing for my brother in regionals and Nationals back when the Zuni and the asw20 were hot birds. I couldn't afford one of them but I did have access to a Pilates and did a whole bunch of xc flying on my own. You see I already had the DESIRE to go xc and to learn to go faster by watching and flying with those guys at the regionals. I remember one day going xc from Minden down to bishop in the Pilates and running into a bunch of guys flying the last leg of a regional task, flying with John Sinclair. It was the fasted I had ever averaged along the whites. Later that night I had a chance to talk to him and remember him telling me 'oh you were the guy in that red white n blue Pilates, yeh that leg along the whites was pretty slow' . Geese I thought we were screaming along! That one little bit of exposure to contest flying taught me more about efficient xc flying than a whole summer of punking around myself!

Second factor, Let's face it, contest flying is for the most part expensive. Even to engage in sport class flying at a regional, a guy better have at least $1000 bucks in his kitty for travel gas hotel entrance fees, extra tows etc. a guy can fly a whole bunch on $1000 locally.

I have returned to soaring after many years of hiatus, but since I already had the Desire to go xc, that was no problem, cost however was still an issue. I circumvented that by going back to basics. I got involved with the veritable dependable and very affordable 1-26. For under 7k a guy can find an excellent 1-26 and trailer and fly to ones hearts content. Xc IS doable, gold n diamond tasks ARE doable, and landing out IS NOT scary, humiliating or a sign of defeat. In fact it is half the fun of xc. I am prouder of my little 100km flights with a land out on a marginal day than most guys flying around in their glass n getting home. Yes I worked harder, yes I went way way slower, but I know that I made far fewer mistakes than the glass man who has the cushion of performance to cover his ass where if I make a mistake missing one thermal I am down 10 miles from home. I am redoing my badges in my 1-26. 1-26 flying is a measure of the man not the machine.

As for contests in a 1-26, I talked to Wick Wilkerson the pres of the 1-26 assoc, they are waving the entrance fees for anyone who has never flown a contest before and wants to fly in the 1-26 nationals this year. Secondly, a simple logging computer like the old Oudie or nano is all that's needed to fly in their nationals. Thirdly, no matter how ratty or clean your 1-26 is, you are going to be competitive. How's that for an entrance ramp!

I can't think of a better way for anyone with limited soaring experience and a limited budget to get involved in xc and in contest flying.
Sincerely
Dan Nezgoda 1-26 #225

Dan, this is one of the best posts in a very long time.

On 2/11/2016 4:27 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 5:28:36 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
I'll throw two cents more into this discussion. I think xc soaring has
always been a minority persuite in soaring. The vast majority of soaring
pilots do not own their own ships, they are dependant upon club ships. It
started this way and it is still this way. That being said, most clubs,
with a few exceptions, do not place much emphasis on xc due to the hassle
of retrieves etc. thus we get very little 'club' participation in
contests. Those guys who own their own ships, for the most part are
content to hang around doing local flying for the same reasons, the
hassle factor of xc. When we eliminate the club/non owners and the 'happy
to fly local/private owners from the pool, their ain't much left for
contests.

I think the big stumbling block to the entire situation is the lack of
desire to simply fly xc. Lack of a personal machine=inability to go
anywhere (for most guys). The issue comes down to DESIRE. A guy who has
desire to do something will always find a way and find the cash that
fulfill it. If your talking about engendering desire in a prospective
contest guy, the 'buddy around a task' approach in a Duo is a helpfull
way to go to prompt someone to get involved in contest flying. We need
to recognize there is an intimidation factor involved in xc and we have
done it to ourselves. Guys see 18 meter ships 40+/1 zipping around a
100km xc on a sunny afternoon and then they look at themselves and think
'man I'm not very good, what if I land out?' We have looked at
outlandings as a sign of failure instead of accomplishment! Once we start
to engender an understanding that an outlandings is no big deal, a
learning experience, and possibly a sign that we took our abilities to
the edge of their limits, then guys will be more enthusiastic about going
for it.

As for an entrance ramp for guys to get into contest flying, there are
plenty as has been demonstrated in earlier posts. I have never been in a
contest but I spent five years crewing for my brother in regionals and
Nationals back when the Zuni and the asw20 were hot birds. I couldn't
afford one of them but I did have access to a Pilates and did a whole
bunch of xc flying on my own. You see I already had the DESIRE to go xc
and to learn to go faster by watching and flying with those guys at the
regionals. I remember one day going xc from Minden down to bishop in the
Pilates and running into a bunch of guys flying the last leg of a
regional task, flying with John Sinclair. It was the fasted I had ever
averaged along the whites. Later that night I had a chance to talk to him
and remember him telling me 'oh you were the guy in that red white n blue
Pilates, yeh that leg along the whites was pretty slow' . Geese I thought
we were screaming along! That one little bit of exposure to contest
flying taught me more about efficient xc flying than a whole summer of
punking around myself!

Second factor, Let's face it, contest flying is for the most part
expensive. Even to engage in sport class flying at a regional, a guy
better have at least $1000 bucks in his kitty for travel gas hotel
entrance fees, extra tows etc. a guy can fly a whole bunch on $1000
locally.

I have returned to soaring after many years of hiatus, but since I
already had the Desire to go xc, that was no problem, cost however was
still an issue. I circumvented that by going back to basics. I got
involved with the veritable dependable and very affordable 1-26. For
under 7k a guy can find an excellent 1-26 and trailer and fly to ones
hearts content. Xc IS doable, gold n diamond tasks ARE doable, and
landing out IS NOT scary, humiliating or a sign of defeat. In fact it is
half the fun of xc. I am prouder of my little 100km flights with a land
out on a marginal day than most guys flying around in their glass n
getting home. Yes I worked harder, yes I went way way slower, but I know
that I made far fewer mistakes than the glass man who has the cushion of
performance to cover his ass where if I make a mistake missing one
thermal I am down 10 miles from home. I am redoing my badges in my 1-26.
1-26 flying is a measure of the man not the machine.

As for contests in a 1-26, I talked to Wick Wilkerson the pres of the
1-26 assoc, they are waving the entrance fees for anyone who has never
flown a contest before and wants to fly in the 1-26 nationals this year.
Secondly, a simple logging computer like the old Oudie or nano is all
that's needed to fly in their nationals. Thirdly, no matter how ratty or
clean your 1-26 is, you are going to be competitive. How's that for an
entrance ramp!

I can't think of a better way for anyone with limited soaring experience
and a limited budget to get involved in xc and in contest flying.
Sincerely Dan Nezgoda 1-26 #225

Dan, this is one of the best posts in a very long time.


+1!

And no, that's NOT a knock on slippery glass, contests, or the skills to go
XC-zooming around in any ol' 30+:1 glider. It IS a "Hear! Hear!" for not
losing sight of fundamentals every single one of us "XC-able" pilots had to
learn and (maybe even!) master.

If I'd been given a dollar for every time I encountered someone moaning about
"needing the latest glass" as the only pre-requisite they lacked in order to
go XC, I might've been able to justify moving up from the 1st-generation
15-meter glider that met my needs for nearly 3 decades...no
comparison-jealousy in sight! I've often wondered if those "need the latest
glass" pilots were born with that belief, or if they somehow or other missed
hearing, or misinterpreted what they did hear, about the things needed in
order to be able to safely enjoy XC. L/D certainly wasn't near the top of the
list propounded to me when I was in my "sponge-learning mode"...though it
*was* discussed, along with its advantages.

Truth is, I've known more of "that category" pilots who've *busted* their high
L/D ships in ill-performed off-field landings than I have those who even
mildly bent/busted things learning with "kiddy toy gliders." One or two even
remained in the sport. Remember my period of "being a soaring grunt" began in
the early 1970s, before trotting out the, "Yebbut that's because very few 21:1
machines are flown XC anymore," argument. Maybe there should be? That's how I
gained my basic skills, and you can bet I was as sweaty-palmed on my first few
OFLs as Joe Never-Thought-I'd-Be-Landing-My-$150,000-Glider-Off-field is when
he has to do it unexpectedly "all the sudden." Judging from the known general
ages of many of RAS' U.S. posters, I suspect my general background isn't a
solitary experience.

Let's hear it for: 1) learning the basics well; 2) gaining the basic
experience without avoidable (expensive) trauma; 3) having fun soaring! The
rest is just details...

Bob W.

Dan, Really Great post!!

Except you said you need $1000 in your pocket, I think in
reality the number is closer to $2000, contest flying
can consume a lot of money. You can blow better part of
a grand on the hotel room alone in one week.

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 7:35:20 AM UTC-5, joesimmers wrote:
Dan, Really Great post!!

Except you said you need $1000 in your pocket, I think in
reality the number is closer to $2000, contest flying
can consume a lot of money. You can blow better part of
a grand on the hotel room alone in one week.

If the cost drivers are gas, housing, and vacation time. The answer is many local consecutive weekend races. How long a drive is reasonable? Say 5 hours for a guess? Draw a 5 hour driving circle around your gliderport then plan a consecutive weekend race somewhere in that circle. If you don't mind waking up early that is only two nights in a hotel. Camping is far more tolerable for two days instead of ten.

Yes Joe and Greg, you have both got valid points. I know even back in the late 70's when I was crewing for my brother and we were hitting every regional in the west to get tuned up for the Nationals, we blew thru a small fortune of cash. But then I didn't worry about it much since my bro was a senior captain flying airlines so it was chicken scratch for him.

I do really like the idea of consecutive weekend contests. That is a good way to go for sport class and club guys to get into contest flying on a budget. I am living in the FL panhandle area so going north or going NE opens up a lot of possibilities for contest participation. My only problem is I fly crop dusters for a living so my busy time is from the end of June thru sept. That is a bummer. What's the old saying? When I have the time I don't have the money, when I have the money, I don't have the time lol. But as stated in my first post, desire will always find a way.
Dan

Great! It sounds like you guys have identified a common interest. What are you guys waiting for? Start organizing some more of these weekend contests, racing series (one weekend a month for example) or fun competitions. Whatever you guys want to do is great! So do it. Get these events going. Make it happen. Make a plan and then submit dates and details to the SSA contest/event calendar page (http://www.ssa.org/ContestCommittee?show=blog&id=3110) by emailing your event particulars to this email address: . Maybe even put a simple website up for the event, etc.

Plenty of time is left to organize some things for this coming season.

I wish there was more organized events in the great lakes region for example...unfortunately I'm pretty busy with this one, www.sgp.aero/usa2016, in July.

Good luck on these. I hope some of you follow thru. I look forward to partaking in one or two.

Sean

At 17:04 12 February 2016, smfidler wrote:

I wish there was more organized events in the great lakes region
Sean


2016 Canadian National Soaring Championships
http://nationals.yorksoaring.com/

Great! It sounds like you guys have identified a common interest. What are you guys waiting for? Start organizing some more of these weekend contests, racing series (one weekend a month for example) or fun competitions. Whatever you guys want to do is great! So do it. Get these events going. Make it happen. Make a plan and then submit dates and details to the SSA contest/event calendar page (http://www.ssa.org/ContestCommittee?show=blog&id=3110) by emailing your event particulars to this email address: . Maybe even put a simple website up for the event, etc.

Plenty of time is left to organize some things for this coming season.

I wish there was more organized events in the great lakes region for example...unfortunately I'm pretty busy with this one, www.sgp.aero/usa2016, in July.

Good luck on these. I hope some of you follow thru. I look forward to partaking in one or two.

Sean

Great! It sounds like you guys have identified a common interest. What are you guys waiting for? Start organizing some more of these weekend contests, racing series (one weekend a month for example) or fun competitions. Whatever you guys want to do is great! So do it. Get these events going. Make it happen. Make a plan and then submit dates and details to the SSA contest/event calendar page (http://www.ssa.org/ContestCommittee?show=blog&id=3110) by emailing your event particulars to this email address: . Maybe even put a simple website up for the event, etc.

Plenty of time is left to organize some things for this coming season.

I wish there was more organized events in the great lakes region for example...unfortunately I'm pretty busy with this one, www.sgp.aero/usa2016, in July.

Good luck on these. I hope some of you follow thru. I look forward to partaking in one or two.

Sean