CCSC Landing Accident?

Was the one your thinking of in Georgia at a CAP camp?

There was also a nose over on a downwind landing at the Seniors a few years ago wasn't there?

So sorry to hear about loss of control landing accidents. Especially when metal gets bent.
And now an engine teardown.
Landing on grass is very forgiving, quartering tailwinds not withstanding.
Landing on gravel, tires will slide, landing on pavement, no forgiveness for not paying attention.

We have pavement.

The one crop duster video, tailwind landing uphill, was a nose dragger, no real comparison, except for landing an minimum speed.

I agree the Pawnee does not like being "forced to land" at speeds above 60. I've also witnessed instant landings, 3 point, in a small tailwind when the wind decides it's done flying. Busy feet needed.

Sorry to loose another great 2 seat trainer, in an environment that not many are built.
I wonder what it would take for Blanik to restart production on the L-23.

BillT

You can buy new L-23s right now. The L-23NG I think is what it is called. New company took over. They were at the SSA Convention.

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 2:53:56 PM UTC+12, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 8:03:41 PM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:

http://youtu.be/lO3nAB5Zz8

Bad link in the USA

Dammit. This cutting the URLs down business is error-prone. Missed an _

http://youtu.be/_lO3nAB5Zz8

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 3:40:37 PM UTC+12, Bill T wrote:
The one crop duster video, tailwind landing uphill, was a nose dragger, no real comparison, except for landing an minimum speed.

Yes. The New Zealand ag scene has been absolutely dominated by tricycle undercarriage planes since the early 60s (at least). Primarily of course by the Fletcher FU24 series (as in the two videos I've posted), but also in the 60s/early 70s the Bennett/Transavia Airtruk. There are a handful of Ag Cat, Ag Wagon and of course Pawnee but they are vastly outnumbered.

I don't know, but my impression is tail draggers are more popular in Australia.

At 03:54 25 April 2016, Tony wrote:
You can buy new L-23s right now. The L-23NG I think is what it is
called.
New company took over. They were at the SSA Convention.

How much will they cost?

http://www.blanik.aero/

On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 9:51:01 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
A disheartening repeat. A similar towplane-glider collision occurred Fall 2014. In that case, the towplane landed downwind due to noise abatement agreement.

The Pawnee can land extremely short. Seems like you should have a really good reason to land downwind.

As others have stated, it's really no big deal to land downwind in light winds. And there is a really good reason for doing it, as long as it can be done safely: efficient towing.

The whole point of aerotowing it to maximize launches. And landing downwind (or opposite traffic, if the wind is L & V or a crosswind) makes for an efficient operation - if done intelligently and the airfield configuration and traffic is suited to it.

I could argue that landing the towplane downwind is actually the SAFEST way to operate a towplane, especially on a single runway.

Of course, you do have to know how to fly your plane - and always follow the maxim that if you are going to crash, hit the softest, least expensive thing at the lowest speed possible...

Kirk

Notice the 500' wide Taxiway D at Moriarty Municipal Airport
,583m/data=%213m1%211e3.
Tow plane lands into the wind, taxis past glider staged on the taxiway,
rope is hooked up and tow is underway. During contests, 40+ gliders are
staged on the taxiway and one of 5 tow planes taxis past, glider is
pushed onto the runway, other tow planes are landing behind (approx
2,500' from threshold to staging point), it runs like a well-oiled
machine. No need for downwind landings.


On 4/25/2016 9:22 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 9:51:01 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
A disheartening repeat. A similar towplane-glider collision occurred Fall 2014. In that case, the towplane landed downwind due to noise abatement agreement.

The Pawnee can land extremely short. Seems like you should have a really good reason to land downwind.
As others have stated, it's really no big deal to land downwind in light winds. And there is a really good reason for doing it, as long as it can be done safely: efficient towing.

The whole point of aerotowing it to maximize launches. And landing downwind (or opposite traffic, if the wind is L & V or a crosswind) makes for an efficient operation - if done intelligently and the airfield configuration and traffic is suited to it.

I could argue that landing the towplane downwind is actually the SAFEST way to operate a towplane, especially on a single runway.

Of course, you do have to know how to fly your plane - and always follow the maxim that if you are going to crash, hit the softest, least expensive thing at the lowest speed possible...

Kirk

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:

Of course, you do have to know how to fly your plane

This is another one of those cases where the maneuver is perfectly safe if you have the currency/proficiency to do it, and you're not having a bad day, and the wind cooperates.

In some scenarios, downwind-towplane-landing launches more gliders more quickly, or it is the only practical solution, or it is the safest solution with all factors considered. But I doubt that it is always more productive, safer, or necessary.

Wherever possible, the consequences of the most likely (and apparently common) pilot error should be minimal.