Heartfelt Thank You

As I've discussed in a nearby thread, I'm a kinda-sorta n00b at this, having soloed in a 2-33 40-some years ago and then getting away from it for 40 years, until just recently. Back in those days, we DID spin training (in the 2-33), and I'm glad of it! I intend to insist upon it again when I reach the stage in my re-training that seems right, but it's questionable whether spin training will be made available to me now, even if I want it.

My club has no gliders in which intentional spins are permitted -- not even our Grob 103 Acro -- but some nearby commercial FBO's have 2-32's and ASK-21's to play with (Hollister, Williams, Crazy Creek), and they've made it clear to me that they'd love to have my business.

Originally Posted by Charlie Papa[_2_]

We use a venerable 2-32 for spin training, and for the student approaching solo, it is a 'come to Jesus' moment; the laminar wing of the 2-32 seems binary, - it is flying or it is not, and the attitude is dramatic.

One of my life's fantasies, which may yet come true, is to fly the venerable 2-32. Here is a video I really like, showing an instructor giving his 16-year-old son (or grandson?) spin training in the 2-32 at Crazy Creek (beautiful scenery!) which is between Middletown, Ca., and Clear Lake. Towards the end, as his reward for doing well I think, they do a full loop. That's another of my life's fantasies!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV7Vx50qAl4
Thirty-or-forty-some years ago, I went for a commercial touristy glider ride or two when they were still doing that at Calistoga, in what was very probably that very same 2-32.

Originally Posted by Dan Marotta

I seem to recall the story was that more people died during spin training than from actual spins so the FAA, in its infinite wisdom, decided to require spin avoidance training rather than spin recovery training. Of course the slow, untrained person actually getting into a spin has no chance to recover and has to rely on the aircraft recovering itself. I was never much of a fan of that.

Yes, that's the story I've heard too. Note, OTOH, the many stories of pilots (even experienced ones, in both power and gliders) spinning when turning final and going splat. So certainly avoidance training is important, but I agree that full spin recovery matters too. If nothing else, that kind of thing embiggens the student pilot's skill and confidence in making your aircraft do exactly what you want it to do, and that matters bigly.

Originally Posted by Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)

I always let them know, I would "let them get in over their head, never let them get over MY head". Goal was not to scare them, but to push their limits a bit at a time in a sorta controlled environment.

One of my instructors does just this, and I am glad he does. TBH, I tend to be a bit timid about pushing the limits of my comfort zone (e.g., steep turns), so I really need that, and he does it. Besides, I need that adrenaline hit!

Originally Posted by David Salmon[_3_]

There is no substitute for the experience of actually spinning, which for many people is not the most pleasant thing in gliding, though I did once have a pupil who said that she enjoyed it, her reason for delaying the recovery.

There's that too. It can be a kick. When I did my (limited) spin training back in 1975, we went out over San Francisco Bay to do it. We did two full turns before recovering, the explicit purpose being to demonstrate that spins aren't scary and no reason to panic, and to avoid getting disoriented by looking out into the mid-distance. The instructor had me call out the names of the various bay-shore cities as they went wheeling past -- There's Palo Alto. There's Mountain View / Santa Clara. There's San Jose. There's Milpitas. There's Fremont, etc. It was like combining spin recovery training with a leisurely sight-seeing tour.

Originally Posted by Dan Marotta

It is my understanding that, currently in the US, the only requirement for spin training (except for CFI candidates) is recognition and avoidance of spins. As your story illustrates, a spin can still happen and, with two untrained pilots at the controls, the outcome is uncertain.

This brings me to my main reason for making this post: I want to ask about that. What is the FAA's real stance on this? I keep hearing various stories: Some are saying that FAA no longer requires, or no longer recommends spin training, others tell me that it's absolutely FORBIDDEN for PPG students! Can this be true? Or is it at the school's, or instructor's discretion?

-- J. J.
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