resign commission for warrant officer questions

Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today.

Not true.

In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to fly
lead.

Hmmm, every group or wing commander I've known was a fully qualified instructor
not only capable of leading a formation or acting as a mission commander, but
capable of training others to do so.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today.

Not true.

In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to
fly
lead.

Hmmm, every group or wing commander I've known was a fully qualified
instructor
not only capable of leading a formation or acting as a mission commander,
but
capable of training others to do so.

Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".

Ragnar wrote:

Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".

I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things, but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force. LeMay, as Group
commander led his group in its part in the Scweinfurt-Regensberg mission, so it
appears senior leaders have been leading combat strikes since at least WWII.
Billy Mitchell flew in the St. Mihel offensive, and he was the second ranking
U.S. aviator in France. I'm not doubting your experience, just curious as to
what time period we're comparing here?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

On 19 Jun 2004 03:39:49 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things, but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force.

The question was asked by a guy in army aviation. Does the army have
wing commanders?

I think I understand what he's after, besides getting on active duty.
(Good for him!) He wants to fly too, perhaps. What for a career path
does an army (commissioned) officer have in aviation? Forty years ago
all helicopter pilots were WOs, but I believe that's no longer true.
Indeed, I seem to recall a father-son team later in the Vietnam war,
where dad was an officer and son was a WO.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
On 19 Jun 2004 03:39:49 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things,
but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in
nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force.

The question was asked by a guy in army aviation. Does the army have
wing commanders?

I think I understand what he's after, besides getting on active duty.
(Good for him!) He wants to fly too, perhaps. What for a career path
does an army (commissioned) officer have in aviation? Forty years ago
all helicopter pilots were WOs, but I believe that's no longer true.
Indeed, I seem to recall a father-son team later in the Vietnam war,
where dad was an officer and son was a WO.

I don't believe the Army has ever had an exclusively WO flying force;
commissioned officers did indeed fly helos forty years ago. But the majority
of the pilot force has been, and continues to be, provided by the WO side of
the house. And I believe your recollection is a bit off--the father-son team
you refer to was probably the Novosel's, where the father had indeed at one
time been a commissioned officer (former B-29 pilot) who later took a
warrant to fly helos for the Army; he and his son were both WO's, both
flying Dustoff UH-1H's in Vietnam in the same unit, IIRC. As Ron noted
earlier, the senior Novosel was awarded the MoH for action during that
conflict. He died eight or ten years ago, again IIRC.

Brooks



all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

s Ron noted
earlier, the senior Novosel was awarded the MoH for action during that
conflict. He died eight or ten years ago, again IIRC.

Brooks

I am pretty sure he is still alive.

Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying the
UH-1, the father rescued them.
Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the one
rescueing the dad.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

Ron wrote;

Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying the
UH-1, the father rescued them.
Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the one
rescueing the dad.

I heard this story told, in person, when Novosel came to speak to my SOS class.
According to Novosel, he put his helo down immediately beside his son's downed
bird, but was forced to run over 100 yards through mud and swamp just a few
days later when his son picked him up. He said he reminds his son of that fact
to this day.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"Ron" wrote in message
...
s Ron noted
earlier, the senior Novosel was awarded the MoH for action during that
conflict. He died eight or ten years ago, again IIRC.

Brooks

I am pretty sure he is still alive.

It appears you are right, from what I have since found on the web. At least
he was alive last year when he testified before congress regarding the award
criteria for the combat medic badge! My mistake...

Brooks


Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying
the
UH-1, the father rescued them.
Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the
one
rescueing the dad.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

On 19 Jun 2004 14:59:30 GMT, 362436 (Ron) wrote:

Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying the
UH-1, the father rescued them.
Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the one
rescueing the dad.

Their story was wonderfully well told in a book I picked up at the
library, about fathers and sons in combat. (An idea that didn't quite
pan out. They were they only father-son vets of the same war, and many
of the entries didn't actually have a father-son match.) Can't
remember the name but worth reading for the chapters about these two
men. When the book was written (not long ago) they were living
side-by-side on the same street, still helping each other out.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Ragnar wrote:

Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".

I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things,
but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in
nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force. LeMay, as
Group
commander led his group in its part in the Scweinfurt-Regensberg mission,
so it
appears senior leaders have been leading combat strikes since at least
WWII.
Billy Mitchell flew in the St. Mihel offensive, and he was the second
ranking
U.S. aviator in France. I'm not doubting your experience, just curious as
to
what time period we're comparing here?
\
My time period is 1983 and forward. My most recent flying wing had a
wing/cc that flew once a month and had an IP in the left seat the whole
time. The ops grp/cc was the same. All of the senior staff had an IP (or
equivalent) ride with them. They simply weren't qualified to fly the jet
unassisted.