Could the Press Grow a Spine?

On 25 Jun 2004 17:12:10 GMT, (WalterM140) wrote:

I think you are wasting your words. Walt's postings are about creating left
wing propaganda, not facts.

Well, one fact is that Bush's record of chronilogical service has a 16 month
break in it.

Walt

You're apparently a graduate of the Joseph Goebbels School of Debate.

Repeat, repeat, repeat. Ignore refutation. State as fact without
support. Keep the sound bite short and eventually it will be accepted
as true.

"War is Peace" "Black is White" "Lie is Truth"

Orwell titled his work 20 years too soon for ol' Walt.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Could the Press Grow a Spine?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/25/2004 10:36 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 25 Jun 2004 17:12:10 GMT, (WalterM140) wrote:

I think you are wasting your words. Walt's postings are about creating
left
wing propaganda, not facts.

Well, one fact is that Bush's record of chronilogical service has a 16 month
break in it.

Walt

You're apparently a graduate of the Joseph Goebbels School of Debate.

Repeat, repeat, repeat. Ignore refutation. State as fact without
support. Keep the sound bite short and eventually it will be accepted
as true.

"War is Peace" "Black is White" "Lie is Truth"

Orwell titled his work 20 years too soon for ol' Walt.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Do you have any facts to back up your acccusation of Walt's lack of facts?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 25 Jun 2004 18:10:18 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


Do you have any facts to back up your acccusation of Walt's lack of facts?


Arthur Kramer

Have you been nodding off again?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Could the Press Grow a Spine?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/25/2004 2:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 25 Jun 2004 18:10:18 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


Do you have any facts to back up your acccusation of Walt's lack of facts?


Arthur Kramer

Have you been nodding off again?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Cute, but it is still a non-answer answer.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 25 Jun 2004 21:48:12 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Could the Press Grow a Spine?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/25/2004 2:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 25 Jun 2004 18:10:18 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


Do you have any facts to back up your acccusation of Walt's lack of facts?


Arthur Kramer

Have you been nodding off again?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Cute, but it is still a non-answer answer.


Arthur Kramer

With all due, but flagging respect, I've posted repeatedly in great
detail rebutting Walt's continual repetitive (that's redundant, I
know) assertions.

Now, you, George Z and the ubiquitous and inane Walt, have entered a
circle jerk in which the three of you keep echoing the mindless drivel
of one-liners that have been rebutted in great detail by many of us
here.

I get the point. You don't agree with the President. You think that
Kerry is a hero because he got wounded three times. You ignore the
Winter Soldier testimony and you accept the fact that all of us who
fought in Vietnam were war criminals guilty of atrocity.

You agree that we should enthrone a Robin Hood government that takes
from the rich and bestows upon the poor. We should turn over American
foreign policy to 220 stumbling third-world corrupt governments in the
UN. And, we should provide universal health care to everyone in the
nation, regardless of cost.

Repetition might be satisfying and with the three of you echoing each
other, it may meet your needs for intellectual stimulation.

At this point I'll let you vote the way you wish, but fervently hope
that you'll wake up tomorrow morning, have a hot cup of coffee, and
begin to engage in meaningful, intelligent dialog. I also hope to win
the lottery this week.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Could the Press Grow a Spine?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/25/2004 3:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 25 Jun 2004 21:48:12 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Could the Press Grow a Spine?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/25/2004 2:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 25 Jun 2004 18:10:18 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


Do you have any facts to back up your acccusation of Walt's lack of facts?


Arthur Kramer

Have you been nodding off again?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Cute, but it is still a non-answer answer.


Arthur Kramer

With all due, but flagging respect, I've posted repeatedly in great
detail rebutting Walt's continual repetitive (that's redundant, I
know) assertions.

Now, you, George Z and the ubiquitous and inane Walt, have entered a
circle jerk in which the three of you keep echoing the mindless drivel
of one-liners that have been rebutted in great detail by many of us
here.

I get the point. You don't agree with the President. You think that
Kerry is a hero because he got wounded three times. You ignore the
Winter Soldier testimony and you accept the fact that all of us who
fought in Vietnam were war criminals guilty of atrocity.

You agree that we should enthrone a Robin Hood government that takes
from the rich and bestows upon the poor. We should turn over American
foreign policy to 220 stumbling third-world corrupt governments in the
UN. And, we should provide universal health care to everyone in the
nation, regardless of cost.

Repetition might be satisfying and with the three of you echoing each
other, it may meet your needs for intellectual stimulation.

At this point I'll let you vote the way you wish, but fervently hope
that you'll wake up tomorrow morning, have a hot cup of coffee, and
begin to engage in meaningful, intelligent dialog. I also hope to win
the lottery this week.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Let's just agree to disagree and leave the schoolyard personal attacks and
insults out of it. OK?. We have very different views of how America should be
led. And I never seeing us agreeing on these points. Your flagging respect has
been noted. But remember that respect is a two way street.







Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

You think that Kerry is a hero because he got wounded three times.


Perhaps twice by enemy action.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jun 2004 21:48:12 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

(Snip)

With all due, but flagging respect, I've posted repeatedly in great
detail rebutting Walt's continual repetitive (that's redundant, I
know) assertions.

Now, you, George Z and the ubiquitous and inane Walt, have entered a
circle jerk in which the three of you keep echoing the mindless drivel
of one-liners that have been rebutted in great detail by many of us
here.

Speaking for only myself, I wonder if it occurs to you that I don't really give
a **** either how you characterize what I say on any specific subject or that
you consider your detailed rebuttals at all convincing. Your calling it a
circle jerk seems to imply that we've gotten together to annoy you with our
mindless drivel of one-liners. You know that that is total nonsense....you're
dealing with three unrelated people who independently agree that, on this
subject, you don't know what you're talking about.

I get the point. You don't agree with the President.....

Congratulations. You noticed.

.....You think that Kerry is a hero because he got wounded three times.....

I challenge you to produce one thing I've said that relates Kerry's wounds
(however superficial they may have been) with any event in which he was involved
that resulted in the issuance of awards to him that involved heroism. Produce
one!!!

You neither know me nor do you know what I think about Kerry or much of anything
else.

.....You ignore the Winter Soldier testimony and you accept the fact that all
of us who
fought in Vietnam were war criminals guilty of atrocity.

Wrong again. Produce one thing I've ever posted where I said "all of us who
fought in Vietnam were war criminals guilty of atrocity" (sic).

(Further mind-reading by Rasimus deleted)

At this point I'll let you vote the way you wish, but fervently hope
that you'll wake up tomorrow morning, have a hot cup of coffee, and
begin to engage in meaningful, intelligent dialog. I also hope to win
the lottery this week.

It's very generous of you to allow me to vote however I wish, which fortunately
is somewhat akin to giving me something I already have. It's also nice of you
to wish that I wake up tomorrow morning, and have a hot cup of coffee, neither
of which should put much strain on your wishing capabilities. As for engaging
in meaningful, intelligent dialog, I always do that.....for those who fail to
perceive that, it's their loss. As for the lottery, I've been trying for twice
a week for years, and the best I've ever been able to do by way of winnings is
fifty bucks. I hope you meant a bit more than that.

George Z.

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jun 2004 21:48:12 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

(Snip)

With all due, but flagging respect, I've posted repeatedly in great
detail rebutting Walt's continual repetitive (that's redundant, I
know) assertions.

Now, you, George Z and the ubiquitous and inane Walt, have entered a
circle jerk in which the three of you keep echoing the mindless drivel
of one-liners that have been rebutted in great detail by many of us
here.

Speaking for only myself, I wonder if it occurs to you that I don't really
give
a **** either how you characterize what I say on any specific subject or
that
you consider your detailed rebuttals at all convincing.

Numerous detailed rebuttals, by numerous posters, you mean? As opposed to
your (and your new li'l buddy Walt's) "drive by distortions"?

Your calling it a
circle jerk seems to imply that we've gotten together to annoy you with
our
mindless drivel of one-liners.

You have another purpose in getting together?

You know that that is total nonsense....you're
dealing with three unrelated people who independently agree that, on this
subject, you don't know what you're talking about.

Which would point to those three people having a tedious grasp of reality.


I get the point. You don't agree with the President.....

Congratulations. You noticed.

.....You think that Kerry is a hero because he got wounded three
times.....

I challenge you to produce one thing I've said that relates Kerry's wounds
(however superficial they may have been) with any event in which he was
involved
that resulted in the issuance of awards to him that involved heroism.
Produce
one!!!

You neither know me nor do you know what I think about Kerry or much of
anything
else.

Your continual defenses of Kerry vice your continual attacks against GWB
paint a clear enough picture for the observer who possesses even average
intelligence, even if you are not gutsy enough to come right out and declare
yourself--not surprising, given your predilection for using this inane
pseudonym you have concocted.


.....You ignore the Winter Soldier testimony and you accept the fact
that all
of us who
fought in Vietnam were war criminals guilty of atrocity.

Wrong again. Produce one thing I've ever posted where I said "all of us
who
fought in Vietnam were war criminals guilty of atrocity" (sic).

"...what that war had done to the young American men sent to fight it. It
started out with our common view of the native people as "gooks", a form of
sub-human species who feel no pain and deserve no right to
life, much less their own country." 'George Z. Bush' (aka Hal Hanig) on 12
FEB 04.

"...the young American men..."? You did not say *some* of them...

In the same post, you said: "Much has been made of his part in the so called
"Winter Soldier Investigations",
where "fabricated testimony of U.S. war atrocities was presented." In point
of
fact, Kerry was not the one who actually made those charges; those charges
were
made as sworn testimony to a Congressional Committee by the individuals who
committed those atrocities. Kerry merely summed them up or referred to them
in
providing his own testimony to the Congress. If that testimony was
fabricated,
it was fabricated by the individuals who confessed to having committed them.
Indeed, why would anybody in his right mind confess to having done such
awful
things in sworn testimony if he had not done them?"

Ignoring the actual FACT that no, Kerry was not referring to sworn testimony
in his own sworn testimony--WSI was not an official investigation, and
ignoring the fact that in his own testimony Kerry did indeed apply a
broadbrush attack that impugned *all* of the officers of his rank and higher
with being implicated as war criminals. As to why they confessed--well, the
subsequent attempts by the military to corroborate that WSI testimony
revealed that either the individuals in fact had no first hand knowledge of
such atrocities, contrary to what they had said in their "sworn"
(giggle-snort) WSI testimony, or in some cases had never even been in combat
as they had "testified".

On 25 FEB you said, regarding Kerry's testimony: "He did not claim that he
had done those things or that he had personal knowledge of them having been
done....merely that he had heard other veterans testify that they had
actually
done those things."

Wrong again. He did indicate that he participated in "war crimes", or
observed them himself--go back and read his congressional testimony. He went
on, as I indicated above, to indict the *entire* chain of command for said
"crimes". His words were, "with the full awareness of officers at all levels
of command." The relevant quotes have been presented to you before--but you
just keep ignoring them....

You even went so far as to claim that Ed bore personal responsibility for
the subsequent actions of those fake Vietnam combat vets who make up the
majority of the more publisized cases of PTSD, when you said on March 7:
"You may wish to deny it, but you still have to accept responsibility for
turning
those young Americans into the liars and poseurs you obviously despise.
They
didn't arrive in Nam that way for the most part. All I do when I look at
them
and what happened to most of them is to count my blessings that something
like
that didn't happen to me. A little bit of that kind of humility might stand
you
is some good, if you'd allow it to."

22 FEB you came out and supported another posters extremely widespread
condemnation of alleged US "atrocities" in Vietnam: "Too many reports from
too many sources all to be wrong. Too many
news photos of dead VN civilian bodies piled up in ditches to have been
posed by
a press that had been religiously supporting the government's line up to
that
point. There's nothing that Jack said that sounded like the ravings of an
idiot. On
the contrary, they had a ring of truth to them."

Again, doesn't take a genius to devine your intent with all of the above.


(Further mind-reading by Rasimus deleted)

At this point I'll let you vote the way you wish, but fervently hope
that you'll wake up tomorrow morning, have a hot cup of coffee, and
begin to engage in meaningful, intelligent dialog. I also hope to win
the lottery this week.

It's very generous of you to allow me to vote however I wish, which
fortunately
is somewhat akin to giving me something I already have. It's also nice of
you
to wish that I wake up tomorrow morning, and have a hot cup of coffee,
neither
of which should put much strain on your wishing capabilities. As for
engaging
in meaningful, intelligent dialog, I always do that.....

LOL!

Brooks

for those who fail to
perceive that, it's their loss. As for the lottery, I've been trying for
twice
a week for years, and the best I've ever been able to do by way of
winnings is
fifty bucks. I hope you meant a bit more than that.

George Z.

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..

you accept the fact that all of us who
fought in Vietnam were war criminals guilty of atrocity.

I dunno about anybody else but when someone tells me that he
witnessed or participated in atrocities I tend to belief them.
When someone also tells me that he did not, I tend to believe
him too. Unlike yourself, I don't have a problem with the
notion that different persons had different experiences.

What I find bizarre, is when someone argues that the atrocities
to which people admit, never occurred.


You agree that we should enthrone a Robin Hood government that takes
from the rich and bestows upon the poor.

I dunno if he agrees with you on that or not. But _I_ definately
am opposed to a government that takes from the poor and gives to the
rich, like the S&L deregulation, or allowing corporations to declare
a surplus in their pension plans based on projected cash flow from
their present workforce, then take back the 'surplus' then declare
bankruptcy and lay off the workers they said would be financing the
pension. Then claim they can't lay the pensions that could have been
payed if they had left the funds on deposit.

Or the corporate income tax, effectively a tax on all consumers, but
it has it's greatest impact on the poor.

We should turn over American
foreign policy to 220 stumbling third-world corrupt governments in the
UN.

I dunno about that. But when we feed them a pack of lies and
sabotage the UN weapons inspection program by feeding them false
information they should call us for being the liars we are.

And, we should provide universal health care to everyone in the
nation,

Yes.

regardless of cost.

It will cost us regardless. The question is mostly how will
those costs be paid.


Repetition might be satisfying and with the three of you echoing each
other, it may meet your needs for intellectual stimulation.

At this point I'll let you vote the way you wish,

No one needs you to 'let' them vote they way they wish. If that
makes you unhappy, maybe you're living in the wrong country.
Perhaps Myamar would be more to your liking.

--

FF