Can anyone verify this story about Blackbirds?

"Jukka O. Kauppinen" wrote in
message ...

I suspect the SR-71s have flown intentionally in Swedish airspace. The
Blackbirds did however run a regular route in the international
airspace, at times very close to the Swedish border.

Swedes did intercept SR-71, though. With careful calculated interception
a Swedish fighter did streak into intercept position and got a radar
lock. The SR-71 flights over the Baltic Sea and Gulf of Finland stopped
for several weeks after that with the USAAF trying to find out how the
Swedes could do that.

First, with an absolute maximum ceiling of about 65K feet, how could a
Draken have acheived a radar lock on a SR-71 flying at its operational
altitude (the ol' "in excess of 85K feet" bit)? Second, the USAAF would have
been hard pressed to investigate a situation that came along twenty-five or
more years after it ceased to exist..:-)


The story below seems just a fabrication - how the Blackbird pilots or
anyone could even know that the Swedes tried to get them, if they didn't
even get planes up before they'd exited?

Another variation of this story tells, that the Blackbird pilots sent
the Swedes a trophy for being the only people ever to have intercepted
an SR-71. Given the circumstances that is far more believable, since an
interception is known to have happened.

Cite?

Brooks


jok

I remember reading about SR-71(Blackbird) aircraft flying in Swedish
airspace on recon missions to Russia, chased by the Swedish air force.
Apparently the Swedish aircraft never got into air even before the
Blackbird had exited Swedish airspace. The Blackbird pilots even sent
the Swedes Christmas post cards with compliments about their attempts
to get them.

Anyone else know of this story? Is it true?

In article , "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

"Jukka O. Kauppinen" wrote in
message ...

I suspect the SR-71s have flown intentionally in Swedish airspace. The
Blackbirds did however run a regular route in the international
airspace, at times very close to the Swedish border.

Swedes did intercept SR-71, though. With careful calculated interception
a Swedish fighter did streak into intercept position and got a radar
lock. The SR-71 flights over the Baltic Sea and Gulf of Finland stopped
for several weeks after that with the USAAF trying to find out how the
Swedes could do that.

First, with an absolute maximum ceiling of about 65K feet, how could a
Draken have acheived a radar lock on a SR-71 flying at its operational
altitude (the ol' "in excess of 85K feet" bit)?

An altitude difference of 20 000 ft is less than 4 miles.
If the SR was cruising at 100 000 ft that's still only 6.6 miles.
Any radar has more range than that, even looking up.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

"Jukka O. Kauppinen" wrote in
message ...

I suspect the SR-71s have flown intentionally in Swedish airspace. The
Blackbirds did however run a regular route in the international
airspace, at times very close to the Swedish border.

Swedes did intercept SR-71, though. With careful calculated
interception
a Swedish fighter did streak into intercept position and got a radar
lock. The SR-71 flights over the Baltic Sea and Gulf of Finland
stopped
for several weeks after that with the USAAF trying to find out how the
Swedes could do that.

First, with an absolute maximum ceiling of about 65K feet, how could a
Draken have acheived a radar lock on a SR-71 flying at its operational
altitude (the ol' "in excess of 85K feet" bit)?

An altitude difference of 20 000 ft is less than 4 miles.
If the SR was cruising at 100 000 ft that's still only 6.6 miles.
Any radar has more range than that, even looking up.

OK, I should have rephrased--how could the Draken have posed an actual
threat to the SR? And, I'd be mightily surprised if said Draken was actually
operating at its tippy-top ceiling capability...

Brooks


--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

"Jukka O. Kauppinen" wrote
in
message ...

I suspect the SR-71s have flown intentionally in Swedish airspace.
The
Blackbirds did however run a regular route in the international
airspace, at times very close to the Swedish border.

Swedes did intercept SR-71, though. With careful calculated
interception
a Swedish fighter did streak into intercept position and got a radar
lock. The SR-71 flights over the Baltic Sea and Gulf of Finland
stopped
for several weeks after that with the USAAF trying to find out how
the
Swedes could do that.

First, with an absolute maximum ceiling of about 65K feet, how could a
Draken have acheived a radar lock on a SR-71 flying at its operational
altitude (the ol' "in excess of 85K feet" bit)?

An altitude difference of 20 000 ft is less than 4 miles.
If the SR was cruising at 100 000 ft that's still only 6.6 miles.
Any radar has more range than that, even looking up.

OK, I should have rephrased--how could the Draken have posed an actual
threat to the SR? And, I'd be mightily surprised if said Draken was
actually
operating at its tippy-top ceiling capability...

Brooks


I would think a head on-shot after a pop-up intercept would have a
meaningful Pk if the intercept was run perfectly. The problem is getting to
the right point in time and space to take the head-on shot.

KB

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

"Jukka O. Kauppinen"
wrote
in
message ...

I suspect the SR-71s have flown intentionally in Swedish airspace.
The
Blackbirds did however run a regular route in the international
airspace, at times very close to the Swedish border.

Swedes did intercept SR-71, though. With careful calculated
interception
a Swedish fighter did streak into intercept position and got a
radar
lock. The SR-71 flights over the Baltic Sea and Gulf of Finland
stopped
for several weeks after that with the USAAF trying to find out how
the
Swedes could do that.

First, with an absolute maximum ceiling of about 65K feet, how could
a
Draken have acheived a radar lock on a SR-71 flying at its
operational
altitude (the ol' "in excess of 85K feet" bit)?

An altitude difference of 20 000 ft is less than 4 miles.
If the SR was cruising at 100 000 ft that's still only 6.6 miles.
Any radar has more range than that, even looking up.

OK, I should have rephrased--how could the Draken have posed an actual
threat to the SR? And, I'd be mightily surprised if said Draken was
actually
operating at its tippy-top ceiling capability...

Brooks


I would think a head on-shot after a pop-up intercept would have a
meaningful Pk if the intercept was run perfectly. The problem is getting
to
the right point in time and space to take the head-on shot.

I'd think head-on the SR would likely present a pretty small RCS (it was
after all known for being rather stealthy for its day)--couple that with its
speed, the interceptor's speed (i.e., one heck of a closure velocity), and
the idea that the Draken would have to be lugging at best a couple of Rb
27/28 (read as "Falcon") AAM's, and I don't see it as very doable. Color me
dubious.

Brooks


KB

I would think a head on-shot after a pop-up intercept would have a
meaningful Pk if the intercept was run perfectly. The problem is getting
to
the right point in time and space to take the head-on shot.

I'd think head-on the SR would likely present a pretty small RCS (it was
after all known for being rather stealthy for its day)--couple that with its
speed, the interceptor's speed (i.e., one heck of a closure velocity), and
the idea that the Draken would have to be lugging at best a couple of Rb
27/28 (read as "Falcon") AAM's, and I don't see it as very doable. Color me
dubious.

Brooks


I am not sure about their real stealthiness, at least from the rear hemisphere.
Yeah I know the chances of a shot from that quarter are not the best to say
the least.

Went on a F-4E Functional Check Flight out of Korat once. The FCF involves
among other things, doing a Mach run around 2.0 somewhere between FL400 and
FL500. On this particular flight I found and locked on to a very high speed
tartget target well above us with a huge negative closing range. We were M2+
and probably at FL450 over nothern Thailand headed NE. Stayed locked on long
enough to have been able to get an AIM 7 off though I suspect the PK wasn't the
greatest. The Mach run was interrupted by a #1 engine compressor stall so we
had other things to do besides play with that bogey.

On another occaision we were #2 for the active behind a Blackbird at Kadena.
After he took off and we took the active I locked on to him and again stayed
locked on until he was about 15 miles out.

Both were in friendly airspace so I suspect that whaterver ECM those bogeys had
was turned off, as well. The F-4 radar was very susceptible to gate stealers.

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message ...
I'd think head-on the SR would likely present a pretty small RCS (it was
after all known for being rather stealthy for its day)--couple that with its
speed, the interceptor's speed (i.e., one heck of a closure velocity), and
the idea that the Draken would have to be lugging at best a couple of Rb
27/28 (read as "Falcon") AAM's, and I don't see it as very doable. Color me
dubious.

Points for close enough? Hey, no reason for the Habu drivers to not
have a sense of humour about it.

"Kevin Brooks" wrote:
I'd think head-on the SR would likely present a pretty small RCS (it was
after all known for being rather stealthy for its day)--couple that with its
speed, the interceptor's speed (i.e., one heck of a closure velocity), and
the idea that the Draken would have to be lugging at best a couple of Rb
27/28 (read as "Falcon") AAM's, and I don't see it as very doable. Color me
dubious.

I'm wondering *when* it was, also. The SR-71 had a pretty
significant defensive electronics fit; at some time it was allegedly
the best stuff we could make, and capable of jamming just about
anything.






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OK, I should have rephrased--how could the Draken have posed an actual
threat to the SR? And, I'd be mightily surprised if said Draken was actually
operating at its tippy-top ceiling capability...

Brooks

It was a Viggen.

Swedes did intercept SR-71, though.

First, with an absolute maximum ceiling of about 65K feet, how could a
Draken have acheived a radar lock on a SR-71 flying at its operational
altitude (the ol' "in excess of 85K feet" bit)?

Sweden's Air Force had also other fighter types than just the old, good
Draken. However I have no clue what fighter was used in the actual
interception. I would place my bet on the Saab Viggen. This did happen,
anyway, with the Swedish fighter getting an actual lock and being in
position to shoot the missiles. Anyway, it was a well planned and
perfectly executed intercept coordinated from ground, with Viggen (?)
keeping its radar shut until the perfect opportunity, then lighting up
and locking. Surprise maneuver, in peacetime.

Factual sources I don't have on hand though. I've read of this
somewhere, maybe, I may have been talking about this with Swedish AF
pilots, dunno. There may be written article of this in Swedish aviation
magazines, but I suspect what actually happened is buried and hidden in
the AF archives, with just rumours circulating elsewhere.

Another variation of this story tells, that the Blackbird pilots sent
the Swedes a trophy for being the only people ever to have intercepted
an SR-71. Given the circumstances that is far more believable, since an
interception is known to have happened.

Cite?

Mention of this trophy I found when googling for the different
variations of the story.

The one with trophy mentioned was slightly different what I was told or
read earlier, but I think the details of this event have blurred after
it has been told with the details changing, like with the original post
of this thread, which isn't anything like the actual events.

jok