Superior HK XM8 Kicks M4's Ass

B2431 wrote:
From: (robert arndt)


snip

Interestingly enough, the HK G-36 (which the XM-8 is derived from)
actually uses the old AK-74 bayonets left over from the NVA stock!

Oh? And just when did the North Vietnamese Army get the AK-74?

NVA = Nationalen Volksarmee (National People's Army), the East German armed
forces.

Does the X in XM8 mean "experimental?" How many have actually been
used in combat?

None as yet (at least publicly; it's possible some SOF units have used
them). The G36 saw combat with German special forces in Afghanistan. It
seems to have done very well there.

ONwe thing not yet mentioned is that there is a serious move afoot to
reequip with a larger caliber weapon (probably 6.8mm) and the XM8 may be the
opportunity to do it.
--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Dropped for general Heer usage due to reunification costs, still in
use by German SOFs. Also superior to anything in US Inventory... and
that gun also originated in WW2 with Niploit caseless ammunition
research!!!


Well stolen or captured German technology was 100 years ahead of US
technology
in 1945,

And which supposed technology would this be?

tim gueguen 101867

On 7 Jul 2004 02:46:43 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...

The G11 being so incredible that it's dead as a dodo without a single
service user?

Dropped for general Heer usage due to reunification costs, still in
use by German SOFs. Also superior to anything in US Inventory... and
that gun also originated in WW2 with Niploit caseless ammunition
research!!!

Can you provide a cite for the current usage? All the photos I've seen
of German KSK troops show them with G-36 variants or MP-5s.

Peter Kemp

From: Tank Fixer
Date: 7/7/2004 3:52 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:33:17 +0100,
Paul J. Adam attempted to say .....

In message , tw
writes
I've always wondered, what are the differences between the M1, the M1
Garand
and the M14?

M1 rifle was named the Garand: chambered for .30-06 and feeding from an
eight-shot charger.

M14 was very similar, but was chambered in 7.62mm NATO, used a
twenty-round box magazine, and in some versions had a full-auto
capability (little used and often deleted)

Is it just cosmetic stuff like magazine capacity, barrel length
and shape of the stock etc, or is there a big difference in the action?

/*obligatory nationalist point scoring to be taken with pinch of salt*/
Of course, the SLR kicked both their arses, and the Lee-Enfield was better
still! ;-)

Now, for lethality you want a Martini-Henry

Trapdoor Springfield in 45-100 !



The 45 indicate caliber and the second nimber indicates grains of black powder
as originally loaded. I found 45-70 to be more than enough at close range and
noticed no real improvement at 45-80. The smokeless equivalent has just as
powerful but didn't have as much character as black powder. I never tried
Pyrodex.

Have you ever fired 45-100 or equivalent? If so what was the performance?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: Peter Kemp
Date: 7/7/2004 5:00 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 7 Jul 2004 02:46:43 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...

The G11 being so incredible that it's dead as a dodo without a single
service user?

Dropped for general Heer usage due to reunification costs, still in
use by German SOFs. Also superior to anything in US Inventory... and
that gun also originated in WW2 with Niploit caseless ammunition
research!!!

Can you provide a cite for the current usage? All the photos I've seen
of German KSK troops show them with G-36 variants or MP-5s.

Peter Kemp

Nepolit was an explosive used in experimental shelless grenades. I don't know
if it was ever fielded. While I have no proof one way or the other I seriously
doubt it was tried in caseless small arms ammunition. In any event the
technology flopped.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: "Thomas Schoene"
Date: 7/7/2004 4:24 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: . net

B2431 wrote:
From: (robert arndt)


snip

Interestingly enough, the HK G-36 (which the XM-8 is derived from)
actually uses the old AK-74 bayonets left over from the NVA stock!

Oh? And just when did the North Vietnamese Army get the AK-74?

NVA = Nationalen Volksarmee (National People's Army), the East German armed
forces.

I know, I was tweaking teuton.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Tank Fixer wrote in message nk.net...
In article ,
on 5 Jul 2004 02:16:43 -0700,
robert arndt attempted to say .....

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!


from the manufacuers web site ???


hahahahahahaahhaa


No need actually since most HK small arms EXCEED all US Federal and
Military standards, Jackass.

Rob

Nepolit was an explosive used in experimental shelless grenades. I don't know
if it was ever fielded. While I have no proof one way or the other I seriously
doubt it was tried in caseless small arms ammunition. In any event the
technology flopped.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Stick to a/c Dan. Nipolit was invented by WASAG and experimented with
in a wide range of applications such as: shaped explosives, caseless
grenades, disc grenades (85mm diameter, 13mm thick with egg type
detonator inserted in core), anti-tank charges, and caseless
ammunition in the end. Original Nipolit grandes were used in combat
and examples are still found in museums today.
Dynamit-Nobel picked up where WASAG left off...

If you want military book references there are plenty around.

Rob

Peter Kemp wrote in message . ..
On 7 Jul 2004 02:46:43 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...

The G11 being so incredible that it's dead as a dodo without a single
service user?

Dropped for general Heer usage due to reunification costs, still in
use by German SOFs. Also superior to anything in US Inventory... and
that gun also originated in WW2 with Niploit caseless ammunition
research!!!

Can you provide a cite for the current usage? All the photos I've seen
of German KSK troops show them with G-36 variants or MP-5s.

Peter Kemp

GSG-9 had them on hand when they were in Iraq immediately after
Baghdad was captured. GSG-9 was there to protect German business
interests and citizens.
Austria's Cobra Unit also retains the G-11 for special missions and
KSK retains them as well... even though the incredible success of the
cheaper, less-expensive G-36 means that the G-11 would only be used in
crisis situations.
I believe also that Zoll and special German SEKs have tested the G-11
out. The Heer still has a stock of them and some of them were either
sold or loaned out to foreign SOFs and HRUs. The rifle is highly
praised by all accounts.

Rob

In message , robert
arndt writes
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44

No, the Russians first invented the assault rifle in 1916 with the
Federov Avtomat.

Sorry, Mauser issued the first automatic rifles Flieger Selbslader
Karbiner in 1915 as aircraft observers guns.

So you're now going from "selective-fire rifle with lower-power
ammunition", the normal definition of an assault rifle (and one filled
admirably by the Federov) to simply "semi-automatic rifle"? In that
case, then you're batting level with Mexico, who had designed the
Mondragon (which was possibly the first automatic rifle to be formally
adopted as a service arm - by the Mexican Army in 1908).

Interestingly, the Mondragon was bought in numbers by Germany in 1914,
for use by aviators. Not needing oiled cartridges probably helped.

These were followed by
the experimental infantry Model 16 in 1916. The very first Mauser
experimental rifles were tested in 1908... well before the Avtomat.
(From the Encyclopedia of Firearms by Ian V. Hogg)

But the Avtomat was a selective-fire weapon, and controllable in
full-auto: the Mauser and Mondragon weapons were not. Or was the M1
Garand an "assault rifle"?

The G11 being so incredible that it's dead as a dodo without a single
service user?

Dropped for general Heer usage due to reunification costs, still in
use by German SOFs.

No, they've got the G36.

Also superior to anything in US Inventory... and
that gun also originated in WW2 with Niploit caseless ammunition
research!!!

No, it didn't (Nipolit was a moderately interesting idea, but has
virtually nothing to do with the G11's design: the key breakthrough was
raising the cook-off temperature sufficiently)

Rob

p.s. Nice try

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk