Rebuilding my KR-2

Forrest

You need to go to the KR group site and ask your questions there. I
don't have the address to get there but you can look via google and/or
someone here will give to you.

When you start talking to people who are flying the different models
and the mods that have been made you will have a better feeling for
what you have and what you need.

I have a rip off copy or the early KR plans my friend gave me to help
him with some of his problems building but that was 20-30 or so years
ago and doubt if they are still available in my stacks of junk. Since
they are shop plans/drawings and not complete , I wouldn't give to
anyone.

I think they still sell plans and you may want to get a set so you
will know how bird is constructed and how to inspect and be able to
confirm that all the parts are built correctly and all put together
correctly. Remember its your life.

You didn't say how experienced you are. Don't think the bird is the
best for a low time pilot?

You need to trace your bird back and find out who built and get their
plans assuming they have a set of legal ones?

Have read that some had a problem with the retracting gear.
Originally was kind of mickey mouse.

Get an old time KR2 pilot as a Guru.

Don't let my negativism turn you off. Just do your home work and fly
safe.

Big John


On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:40:47 GMT, "Forrest" wrote:

Stealth Pilot

Well, alrightie then. Weight and balance. And 'geared for day is ok'.
It's funny that this isn't the first time I've been told that I'm trying to
expand a humming bird project into a big fat duck. Good point.

Actually, even though only the cabin wall frame is completed, I was in the
process of building a 25% enlargement of the "Marvin Barnard M-19" (kind of
a fiberglass version of a Cub) when the KR2 came up. But the thing is that
I don't know enough about that machine's load capabilities either. Seems
like some education is in order.

The point is to get into the air. I do like the idea of a second airplane.
Four passengers is what I'm really after.

See what happens when you give a kid a piece of paper and say "make a list
for Santa".

Oop! Time to go to work.

Thank you, Forrest

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" wrote:

The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.



Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.


Forrest
having read your wish list you need two aeroplanes (seriously!)
one in basic day vfr fitout that you can make the commutes over to see
your mum in (this is the real aeroplane)
the other a project that you can dream about, fit all the toys into
and satisfy your creative urges with. (this is the unfinished project
aeroplane)

I'm familiar with the KR2. a friend is rebuilding his after pranging
it. they suit a small light pilot (5ft nothing, jockey build) and dont
have capacity for too much instrumentation without going overweight
and having dog like performance.
the engine will cause you problems. the continental will cause you
weight problems. target engine was an 1850cc or 2150cc VW aero
conversion. cruise is about 140 knots on these.
a jabiru 2200cc engine would be good.

I fly a day vfr tailwind and I have commuted to mom's in it on a
number of occasions. my commute is 1500 nautical miles each way.
I havent needed anything more than the instruments I have and I
wouldnt want any less. the tailwind is fitted with:
airspeed indicator
slip indicator
sensitive altimeter
tacho
artificial horizon.
oil temp
oil pressure
vacuum gauge.
fuel gauge
garmin gps 2 plus.
wrist watch on my wrist.
magnetic compass.

anything beyond that is really just dead weight.
I use everything that is there.
the A/H has got me out of the guano on three weather occasions,
however for most situations it is merely an angle of bank indicator. I
wouldnt be without it.

my practical suggestion for your KR2 is as follows.
find out the design empty weight of the aircraft.
weigh the actual aircraft as it sits.
work out what you have to do to achieve the design empty weight in
your finished aircraft. if you cant achieve it then dont bull**** to
yourself. that isnt the aircraft you should be building.
look for something more practical/more suited.

dont embark on a projest that will see the first flight occurring
after your mum isnt here. stick with something simple and practical
for the real aircraft and build a second whizbang project.

Stealth Pilot (no transponder)
Australia

Further advice to Forrest:

As of two years ago, they were still selling plans and the price was very
reasonable.

At that time, their address was:
Rand Robinson Engineering, Inc.
15641 Product Lane, Suite A5
Huntington Beach, CA 92649

Phone: (714) 898-3811

and their (then new) web address was: http://www.fly-kr.com/

Remember that the KR is a very small airplane and that Ken Rand was only
a little bigger than the Wright brothers. If I recall correctly, Ken
Rand was around 5'6" and 125 to 130 pounds. If you are much taller than
5'7", the rounded canopy and turtle deck will not give you adequate
headroom. In addition, shoulder width will be a problem if you are much
larger, or even if you are broad shouldered at 5'7" or so...

I am 6'1" and currently 200 pounds (which I regard as 20 pounds over
weight) and bought my set of plans mainly as a curiosity; and as one
more example of prior engineering with a known result. As I recall it,
Ken Rand's KR-2 originally flew with a 1600 cc VW engine, cruised at
roughly 115 knots, and only required that the cooling intakes be opened
slightly to operate reliably and maintain the desired temperatures.

I have tried a KR-2 on for size and it did not fit. At the minimum,
I would require a molded, rather than blown, canopy (with appropriate
changes to the turtle deck) and about 4 inches more cabin width.

In addition, I would need a useful load of at least 500 pounds, rather
than the stated 420 pounds. It would also need more wing area. Finally
more structure would increase the empty weight. When it is all added up,
the gross weight would probably increase about 150 pounds (to 1150
pounds), the wing area would need to increase to about 90 square feet,
and the engine would need to be a Rotax 912, a Jabiru 2200, or possibly
a Corvair. In short it would no longer be a KR-2; instead it would be
the PS-1 or Pete's Special, a "custom built".

(I really like the KR, but the Doc said he couldn't safely remove a
couple of vertebrae so that I could close the canopy)

A final note of caution. Forrest should be really careful about too
much sanding! Especially, be careful about sanding the leading edges
and skin attachment areas such as near the spar caps! Some years ago,
a 5/8 scale FW-190A self destructed on the way home from OSH. IIRC,
the builder had done a lot of surface work to achieve a near perfect
contour and grand champion finish; and a leading edge split while in
flight ... :-(

Peter

Big John wrote:

Forrest

You need to go to the KR group site and ask your questions there. I
don't have the address to get there but you can look via google and/or
someone here will give to you.

When you start talking to people who are flying the different models
and the mods that have been made you will have a better feeling for
what you have and what you need.

I have a rip off copy or the early KR plans my friend gave me to help
him with some of his problems building but that was 20-30 or so years
ago and doubt if they are still available in my stacks of junk. Since
they are shop plans/drawings and not complete , I wouldn't give to
anyone.

I think they still sell plans and you may want to get a set so you
will know how bird is constructed and how to inspect and be able to
confirm that all the parts are built correctly and all put together
correctly. Remember its your life.

You didn't say how experienced you are. Don't think the bird is the
best for a low time pilot?

You need to trace your bird back and find out who built and get their
plans assuming they have a set of legal ones?

Have read that some had a problem with the retracting gear.
Originally was kind of mickey mouse.

Get an old time KR2 pilot as a Guru.

Don't let my negativism turn you off. Just do your home work and fly
safe.

Big John

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:40:47 GMT, "Forrest" wrote:

Stealth Pilot

Well, alrightie then. Weight and balance. And 'geared for day is ok'.
It's funny that this isn't the first time I've been told that I'm trying to
expand a humming bird project into a big fat duck. Good point.

Actually, even though only the cabin wall frame is completed, I was in the
process of building a 25% enlargement of the "Marvin Barnard M-19" (kind of
a fiberglass version of a Cub) when the KR2 came up. But the thing is that
I don't know enough about that machine's load capabilities either. Seems
like some education is in order.

The point is to get into the air. I do like the idea of a second airplane.
Four passengers is what I'm really after.

See what happens when you give a kid a piece of paper and say "make a list
for Santa".

Oop! Time to go to work.

Thank you, Forrest

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" wrote:

The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.



Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.


Forrest
having read your wish list you need two aeroplanes (seriously!)
one in basic day vfr fitout that you can make the commutes over to see
your mum in (this is the real aeroplane)
the other a project that you can dream about, fit all the toys into
and satisfy your creative urges with. (this is the unfinished project
aeroplane)

I'm familiar with the KR2. a friend is rebuilding his after pranging
it. they suit a small light pilot (5ft nothing, jockey build) and dont
have capacity for too much instrumentation without going overweight
and having dog like performance.
the engine will cause you problems. the continental will cause you
weight problems. target engine was an 1850cc or 2150cc VW aero
conversion. cruise is about 140 knots on these.
a jabiru 2200cc engine would be good.

I fly a day vfr tailwind and I have commuted to mom's in it on a
number of occasions. my commute is 1500 nautical miles each way.
I havent needed anything more than the instruments I have and I
wouldnt want any less. the tailwind is fitted with:
airspeed indicator
slip indicator
sensitive altimeter
tacho
artificial horizon.
oil temp
oil pressure
vacuum gauge.
fuel gauge
garmin gps 2 plus.
wrist watch on my wrist.
magnetic compass.

anything beyond that is really just dead weight.
I use everything that is there.
the A/H has got me out of the guano on three weather occasions,
however for most situations it is merely an angle of bank indicator. I
wouldnt be without it.

my practical suggestion for your KR2 is as follows.
find out the design empty weight of the aircraft.
weigh the actual aircraft as it sits.
work out what you have to do to achieve the design empty weight in
your finished aircraft. if you cant achieve it then dont bull**** to
yourself. that isnt the aircraft you should be building.
look for something more practical/more suited.

dont embark on a projest that will see the first flight occurring
after your mum isnt here. stick with something simple and practical
for the real aircraft and build a second whizbang project.

Stealth Pilot (no transponder)
Australia