SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 5:12:11 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8

We do get scored to the optimum point, it just happens to be on a 1 or 2 mile radius circle. I've used that wiggle room lots of times to get a bit more distance. Gonna be a little early, finish at the side of the circle.
UH

Huh? Surely the RC chair jests.

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 7:44:26 PM UTC-5, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 5:12:11 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8

We do get scored to the optimum point, it just happens to be on a 1 or 2 mile radius circle. I've used that wiggle room lots of times to get a bit more distance. Gonna be a little early, finish at the side of the circle.
UH

Huh? Surely the RC chair jests.

Yep I screwed that one up
UH

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 1:23:33 PM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8

There have been proposals to do that for starts - it would simplify a lot of pre-start complexity, but add some on course uncertainty, particularly on time-limited tasks since the pilot wouldn't know until after the flight exactly where or when (s)he stated for scoring purposes.

it seems a little superfluous to to it for finishes since most of the time the final glide speed exceeds the average speed on course up to the beginning of the final glide. Therefore, the optimal finish point would be at the end of the glide (remember the 10-minute rule? it was designed to eliminate the effect of the final glide on overall average speed on course).

Setting such a fines up as a circle around the airport would lead to some unpleasant brinksmanship as pilots overfly the airport and continue out into the boonies until they are either out of altitude and have to land out, or reach the limit of their comfort that they can turn around and still make it back to the airport at best L/D. That seems counter-productive to safety and not particularly a good measure of soaring skill.

Andy Blackburn
9B

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 12:31:57 AM UTC-5, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 1:23:33 PM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8

There have been proposals to do that for starts - it would simplify a lot of pre-start complexity, but add some on course uncertainty, particularly on time-limited tasks since the pilot wouldn't know until after the flight exactly where or when (s)he stated for scoring purposes.

it seems a little superfluous to to it for finishes since most of the time the final glide speed exceeds the average speed on course up to the beginning of the final glide. Therefore, the optimal finish point would be at the end of the glide (remember the 10-minute rule? it was designed to eliminate the effect of the final glide on overall average speed on course).

Setting such a fines up as a circle around the airport would lead to some unpleasant brinksmanship as pilots overfly the airport and continue out into the boonies until they are either out of altitude and have to land out, or reach the limit of their comfort that they can turn around and still make it back to the airport at best L/D. That seems counter-productive to safety and not particularly a good measure of soaring skill.

Andy Blackburn
9B

Jus' to clarify...

"/s" is internet shorthand for "sarcasm".

I've always been fine with clearly & narrowly defined starts, finishes, total loss of speed points if you miss either gate. The only thing I don't care for on the high finish is that the only place I can see it is inside my cockpit. The old zero agl line finish had a big advantage in that respect. However, on balance, I agree that the high finish solves more problems than it creates.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 8:20:45 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 12:31:57 AM UTC-5, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 1:23:33 PM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8

There have been proposals to do that for starts - it would simplify a lot of pre-start complexity, but add some on course uncertainty, particularly on time-limited tasks since the pilot wouldn't know until after the flight exactly where or when (s)he stated for scoring purposes.

it seems a little superfluous to to it for finishes since most of the time the final glide speed exceeds the average speed on course up to the beginning of the final glide. Therefore, the optimal finish point would be at the end of the glide (remember the 10-minute rule? it was designed to eliminate the effect of the final glide on overall average speed on course).

Setting such a fines up as a circle around the airport would lead to some unpleasant brinksmanship as pilots overfly the airport and continue out into the boonies until they are either out of altitude and have to land out, or reach the limit of their comfort that they can turn around and still make it back to the airport at best L/D. That seems counter-productive to safety and not particularly a good measure of soaring skill.

Andy Blackburn
9B

Jus' to clarify...

"/s" is internet shorthand for "sarcasm".

I've always been fine with clearly & narrowly defined starts, finishes, total loss of speed points if you miss either gate. The only thing I don't care for on the high finish is that the only place I can see it is inside my cockpit. The old zero agl line finish had a big advantage in that respect. However, on balance, I agree that the high finish solves more problems than it creates.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

Well said T8. IIWK, I would have a finish criteria that gave you credit for total energy (not just altitude) by some formula even a pilot could do in their head.

I would also have a final glide computer that gave me useful audio monitoring of above/below required TE.

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 5:20:45 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:

Oops, my bad! Missed the /s at the bottom. On the other hand, it provoked a very nice clarification.

AB
9B

Jus' to clarify...

"/s" is internet shorthand for "sarcasm".

I've always been fine with clearly & narrowly defined starts, finishes, total loss of speed points if you miss either gate. The only thing I don't care for on the high finish is that the only place I can see it is inside my cockpit. The old zero agl line finish had a big advantage in that respect. However, on balance, I agree that the high finish solves more problems than it creates.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8