2018 - AN EXCITING YEAR

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 7:46:26 PM UTC-5, wrote:
You may not be aware of the new sailplanes being publicly released this year.

1. From Poland comes the news release of the Diana 3. It is an 18 metre ship with a conventional spar - unlike the Diana 2 which is sparless. The 'Three' is a real 'looker.'

2. The new Diana 2 has been worked on and now comes with a FES. They are guaranteeing that the FES makes the "Two" a self launcher.

3. Schempp-Hirth are aggressively promoting their Ventus 3 Sport. An all new fuselage that will accommodate taller pilots.

4. From Russia comes the release of an all new 13.5m sailplane. It looks good too! They are claiming it will be the cheapest competition sailplane on the market. It should be a first sailplane buy for any new competition pilot to get into the scene.

5. Blanik are making reductions in cost to modify their spars.

Its a busy time for us getting all these stories into our March issue.

JOHN ROAKE
EDITOR
GLIDING INTERNATIONAL

Any new affordable trainers to replace the aging fleet of 2-33, TwinAstir or K21 models on the horizon? Without them, we are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
Uli
'AS'

Why would you replace an ASK21?! To gain what?

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 3:18:07 PM UTC+3, Tango Whisky wrote:
Why would you replace an ASK21?! To gain what?

At the time my club was looking to replace two aging Twin Astirs and a Janus (all made in 1978) the ASK21 cost 60k EUR and the 18m DG1000 Club cost 70k EUR.

Both gliders have great handling and are fully aerobatic and suitable for training beginners. For the extra 10k EUR we got:

- 20 years newer design

- about 41:1 L/D instead of 34. That's significant in cross country training, or even just in reaching lift from a winch launch.

- min sink is only 80% of the K21. More time in the air from every launch.

- G limits are also a bit larger: +7/-5 vs +6.5/-4

- classic stall/spin characteristics through the full C0fG range. The ASK21 needs gimmicky tail weights.


It seemed like a pretty small price increment, so our club bought the first two produced. Since then several air forces around the world (including USAF) have placed large orders for them.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:58:51 -0800, AS wrote:

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 7:46:26 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
You may not be aware of the new sailplanes being publicly released this
year.

1. From Poland comes the news release of the Diana 3. It is an 18
metre ship with a conventional spar - unlike the Diana 2 which is
sparless. The 'Three' is a real 'looker.'

2. The new Diana 2 has been worked on and now comes with a FES. They
are guaranteeing that the FES makes the "Two" a self launcher.

3. Schempp-Hirth are aggressively promoting their Ventus 3 Sport. An
all new fuselage that will accommodate taller pilots.

4. From Russia comes the release of an all new 13.5m sailplane. It
looks good too! They are claiming it will be the cheapest competition
sailplane on the market. It should be a first sailplane buy for any new
competition pilot to get into the scene.

5. Blanik are making reductions in cost to modify their spars.

Its a busy time for us getting all these stories into our March issue.

JOHN ROAKE EDITOR GLIDING INTERNATIONAL

Any new affordable trainers to replace the aging fleet of 2-33,
TwinAstir or K21 models on the horizon? Without them, we are just
rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
Uli 'AS'

I can see why you might niggle about Twin Astirs/Grob Acros and the 2-33,
but what's wrong with the ASK-21? On good days our instructors take near
solo students on out and return flights to the club at Husbands Bosworth,
70km away, in ours. AFAIK they haven't landed out yet doing this.

In any case the SZD-54 Perkoz is worth looking at. It has similar
performance to the ASK-21 with 17.8m wings. Add the 20m extensions with
winglets and its also a 42:1 XC trainer.

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 8:20:50 AM UTC-5, Kiwi User wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:58:51 -0800, AS wrote:

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 7:46:26 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
You may not be aware of the new sailplanes being publicly released this
year.

1. From Poland comes the news release of the Diana 3. It is an 18
metre ship with a conventional spar - unlike the Diana 2 which is
sparless. The 'Three' is a real 'looker.'

2. The new Diana 2 has been worked on and now comes with a FES. They
are guaranteeing that the FES makes the "Two" a self launcher.

3. Schempp-Hirth are aggressively promoting their Ventus 3 Sport. An
all new fuselage that will accommodate taller pilots.

4. From Russia comes the release of an all new 13.5m sailplane. It
looks good too! They are claiming it will be the cheapest competition
sailplane on the market. It should be a first sailplane buy for any new
competition pilot to get into the scene.

5. Blanik are making reductions in cost to modify their spars.

Its a busy time for us getting all these stories into our March issue.

JOHN ROAKE EDITOR GLIDING INTERNATIONAL

Any new affordable trainers to replace the aging fleet of 2-33,
TwinAstir or K21 models on the horizon? Without them, we are just
rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
Uli 'AS'

I can see why you might niggle about Twin Astirs/Grob Acros and the 2-33,
but what's wrong with the ASK-21? On good days our instructors take near
solo students on out and return flights to the club at Husbands Bosworth,
70km away, in ours. AFAIK they haven't landed out yet doing this.

In any case the SZD-54 Perkoz is worth looking at. It has similar
performance to the ASK-21 with 17.8m wings. Add the 20m extensions with
winglets and its also a 42:1 XC trainer.

Perkoz website says 17.5m wings, claims 37:1 (vs ASK-21 34:1). http://szd.com.pl/downloads/4e898c26...-perkoz-en.pdf ; never flown one but it looked nice at a previous SSA convention. According to the Transport Canada registry, there are 3 in the country (Edmonton, Quebec, Toronto). Certainly worth a look. Factory support for my SZD-55 has been good, and also for our club Puchacz...

I'll be interested to see item 5 - like many clubs, we have an L-13 at the back of the hangar. A north american-available (no european shipping) cost-effective fix would be nice...

I think the emphasis was on *affordable*

A new K21, DG1000, or Perkoz are all around 80-85k Euro.
Plus VAT
Plus trailer
Plus Instruments

This means it's unlikely that you'd get a new 2-seater in the UK for much
less than 120k GBP

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of suitable 2nd hand ab-initio
trainers around at the moment

KN


At 13:20 14 February 2018, Kiwi User wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:58:51 -0800, AS wrote:


Any new affordable trainers to replace the aging fleet of 2-33,
TwinAstir or K21 models on the horizon? Without them, we are just
rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
Uli 'AS'

At 13:44 14 February 2018, Kevin Neave wrote:
I think the emphasis was on *affordable*

A new K21, DG1000, or Perkoz are all around 80-85k Euro.
Plus VAT
Plus trailer
Plus Instruments

This means it's unlikely that you'd get a new 2-seater in the UK for muc
less than 120k GBP

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of suitable 2nd hand ab-initi
trainers around at the moment

KN


At 13:20 14 February 2018, Kiwi User wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:58:51 -0800, AS wrote:


Any new affordable trainers to replace the aging fleet of 2-33,
TwinAstir or K21 models on the horizon? Without them, we are just
rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
Uli 'AS'


PW6

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 8:45:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Neave wrote:
I think the emphasis was on *affordable*

A new K21, DG1000, or Perkoz are all around 80-85k Euro.
Plus VAT
Plus trailer
Plus Instruments

This means it's unlikely that you'd get a new 2-seater in the UK for much
less than 120k GBP

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of suitable 2nd hand ab-initio
trainers around at the moment

KN


At 13:20 14 February 2018, Kiwi User wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:58:51 -0800, AS wrote:


Any new affordable trainers to replace the aging fleet of 2-33,
TwinAstir or K21 models on the horizon? Without them, we are just
rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
Uli 'AS'



Kevin - you got it!
There is nothing wrong with the TwinII or the K21 except most TwinIIs in the US are essentially single seat gliders with a large luggage compartment due to multiple repairs while the K21s are few and far between and when one comes up for sale, it still costs a fortune.
We need an affordable, well performing fiberglass trainer that prepares future pilots for the V3, D3, etc.
Uli
'AS'

Or go back to dragging students just above the ground in open primary type gliders...

At 18:17 14 February 2018, AS wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 8:45:07 AM UTC-5, Kevin Neave
wrote:
I think the emphasis was on *affordable*
=20
A new K21, DG1000, or Perkoz are all around 80-85k Euro.
Plus VAT
Plus trailer
Plus Instruments
=20
This means it's unlikely that you'd get a new 2-seater in the UK for
much
less than 120k GBP
=20
There doesn't seem to be much in the way of suitable 2nd hand ab-
initio
trainers around at the moment
=20
KN
=20
=20
At 13:20 14 February 2018, Kiwi User wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:58:51 -0800, AS wrote:

=20
Any new affordable trainers to replace the aging fleet of 2-33,
TwinAstir or K21 models on the horizon? Without them, we are
just
rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
Uli 'AS'



Kevin - you got it!
There is nothing wrong with the TwinII or the K21 except most TwinIIs
in
th=
e US are essentially single seat gliders with a large luggage
compartment
d=
ue to multiple repairs while the K21s are few and far between and
when one
=
comes up for sale, it still costs a fortune.
We need an affordable, well performing fiberglass trainer that prepares
fut=
ure pilots for the V3, D3, etc.
Uli
'AS'


PW 6