Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 5:53:15 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
Kirk makes good points.

Here's what we do at Post Mills. We've made converts out of three other clubs in the region. It works well.

Our signal to take up slack is to level the wings of the glider. The wing runner "confirms" this by giving the take up slack signal as slack taking proceeds. As slack comes out, wing runner raises arm vertically, wing stays level. When ready to begin the launch, the glider gives a rudder wag, confirmed by the wing runner windmilling his arm. The tow pilot acknowledges with a brief rudder wag, then begins the take off.

Efficient, water ballast compatible, easy for everyone involved to see and understand. Why isn't the SSF teaching this?

best regards,
Evan Ludeman / T8

I like your way of doing it. Breaks the launch into distinct, unambiguous sequences with little chance of confusion, and addresses the water ballast equaling issue that inexperienced wing runners can screw up. And makes it obvious that a glider on the grid with level wings is hooked up and could move at any time. Similar to race launches where you go as soon as the rope is tight. Still have to beat into the wing runners not to signal takeoff until they see the rudder waggle. Also, if at any time during the preparation to launch the wing runner sees conflicting traffic, putting the wing down automatically stops the launch.

I'm going to see if I can get our club to try it.

Meanwhile - SSF, are you reading this? I think it's time to re-visit our procedures!

Kirk
66
St Louis Soaring Assn.

Why the rudder waggle? What's its purpose? The only country in the half dozen countries in which I have flown that does a rudder waggle is the US.

From the towplane, I can barely see an ASW-27's rudder waggle in the vibrating mirrors. It also means that as a towpilot I am focused on my mirrors to ensure I don't miss the waggle instead of the circuit and traffic around me prior to take-off.

In Canada, the standard take-up slack and all-out signals are provided by the wing-runner after receiving a thumbs-up from the pilot.

As someone else mentioned up-thread. If the pilot is not happy about launching at that instant, pull the yellow knob.

We in Australia use the wing runner for all signals, the launch commences when the glider pilot gives a thumbs up to the runner,
who then levels the wings and waves his arm below the waist as a take up slack signal, then when the rope is tight, waves his arm above his head.
Never seen any problems with this practice.

Because we're running a club and training operation, not a contest launch.

There are plenty of circumstances in which student plus instructor might need an extra five seconds to sort something out. Absent the rudder wag, your only recourse at "all out" is hit the release. That's not very efficient.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 9:33:29 PM UTC-4, Dave Springford wrote:
Why the rudder waggle?

My old club used to work with the Civil Air Patrol, supplying towplane, gliders and sometimes glider pilots to give cadets orientation flights. One disagreement over signals led to some pretty heated discussions.

Our club practice was to keep the wing on the ground until slack was removed glider pilot gave the thumbs up and the runner checked the pattern etc. He would then raise the wing. Rudders were waggled at both ends and if the runner felt it was safe gave the launch signal. The thought process was that it was easy for the tug pilot to see the wing's position. If the wing was down, stand by. CAP insisted that the wing should be raised to indicate the tug could take up slack citing their (and SSA's?) wing runner course. The problem was that the mix of tug and glider pilots varied. Sometimes one or both being ours, sometimes theirs. I've seen it done both ways. It seems to me that a takeoff commencing when the glider pilot isn't ready is less likely the way we did it. If the wing is up, the glider pilot is ready. But, when in Rome...

The FAA handbook says "Pilot ready, wings level — when the glider pilot is ready for takeoff, a thumbs up signal is given and the wing
runner will level the wing to the takeoff position".