Round out and flare with fully open spoilers in a PW-6? Other gliders?

One of the places I regularly fly has a very steep wind gradient coupled trees and hills on the final. More than once I have seen a power pilot not be able to get wheels on the twenty eight hundred foot long runway. At this airport I fly a much steeper approach on final than the "stabilized approach" as I know I can lose up to 10 knot of head wind on very short final. Students should be taught to fly the conditions, not every landing required the same approach as the last one.

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 10:41:14 PM UTC-7, Tango Whisky wrote:
Le mardi 3 avril 2018 02:15:05 UTC+2, Don Johnstone a écritÂ*:
At 15:52 02 April 2018, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:
Well, if reducing airbrake on landing meant they hit a
tree/fence/solid
object, yep, I may agree.

On my post 3/27 (which I believe someone thought I meant, "learn
to be a
test pilot" at the home field), get current, then do things towards
the
edges of the POH.
I see many that fly in the "middle 30% of the POH" and then are
asked to
heads towards the 100%, sometimes off field.
Get current, then move the flying/landing towards the limits in a
sorta
controlled way.
Calm day at home means you know the field, know the clues

You never know when bad planning means coming over trees into
the bottom of
a gravel pit. That is NOT the time to become sharp.

Sounds like your "broken gliders" with full or modulated brakes
means too
much time in the middle 30% and no training or exposure to the
edges of the
POH.

Actually I didn't, the gliders I have seen broken were the result of
PIO which comes from reducing airbrake.
I do not know about the rest of the world but in the UK full airbrake
approach/landing is the norm. If you are going to be short the
teaching is to fully close the airbrake and re-establish, then use at
least half airbrake, more is preferable. To little airbrake on roundout
is more risky than too much.
If using full airbrake the pilot must ensure that if the wheel brake is
"on the end" of the airbrake that the lever is positioned to ensure
the wheel brake is not applied. This does not require the brake
paddles to be moved in any significant amount.

Well, where I fly and teach, a full airbrake approach is considered poor airmanship.
We train students to be on a stabilized approach with about half airbrakes at least during the second half of final. Half airbrakes give you the possibility to correct both ways.
If you are on a full airbrake approach to an outlanding field and you discover that you are too high, in many gliders you could call the insurance company right away.
And even if you need to touch down shorft behind a tree line, we teach that the approach should be half airbrakes until the tree tops, and then everything out.

Just for the sport of it I'll point out that the 1-26 manual suggests reducing spoilers just before touchdown. POH also notes touchdown with full spoilers is OK at 50 mph.
Wonder how they land 1-26s in England?

At 15:17 03 April 2018, wrote:
Just for the sport of it I'll point out that the 1-26 manual suggests
reducing spoilers just before touchdown. POH also notes
touchdown with
full spoilers is OK at 50 mph.
Wonder how they land 1-26s in England?

Are there any 1-26s in England ?

On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 16:30:10 +0000, James Metcalfe wrote:

At 15:17 03 April 2018, wrote:
Just for the sport of it I'll point out that the 1-26 manual suggests
reducing spoilers just before touchdown. POH also notes
touchdown with
full spoilers is OK at 50 mph.
Wonder how they land 1-26s in England?

Are there any 1-26s in England ?

I've never flown a 1.26 (but its on my list) but some of the strongest
airbrakes I know are in the SZD Junior.

I've normally never needed or use more than half brake in a Junior, but
this time there was a strong wind, so I turned base to finals at 600-700
ft barely downwind of the threshold and stopped rolling less than 100m
into the field. That was a 65+ kt approach flown with full brakes. I saw
almost no float after rounding out: with that much brake a Junior turns
into a fairly decent brick. I knew it was a windy day: I got 2700 ft on
the winch - with the winch placed about 4000 ft from the launch point.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

The purpose for reducing spoilers on the 1-26 is to help prevent landing tailwheel first.

The 1-26 POH also says to use full spoilers for downwind landings. Does anyone do that?

Paul A.

Would the British equivalent to the 1-26 be the Swallow?

I went solo on the Swallow, after training on a T21 (makes my blood run
cold now). It wasn't a problem, I was carefully briefed to approach and
land with half brake the first time but by the third was briefed to use
full brake.

The Swallow had a reputation to be twitchy on landing but from what I saw
this was only if you closed the brakes entirely. 1/4" of brake was enough
to stop this while not giving much drag. What I now realise was that a
tiny amount of brake killed the lift over the part of the wing where the
brakes were and this increased the stability.

Typically we tend to touch down on the main wheel and tail wheel together,
touching down tail first needs a slightly higher round out so there's room
for the tail to go down.

Chris


At 22:28 03 April 2018, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 16:30:10 +0000, James Metcalfe wrote:

At 15:17 03 April 2018, wrote:
Just for the sport of it I'll point out that the 1-26 manual suggests
reducing spoilers just before touchdown. POH also notes
touchdown with
full spoilers is OK at 50 mph.
Wonder how they land 1-26s in England?

Are there any 1-26s in England ?

I've never flown a 1.26 (but its on my list) but some of the strongest
airbrakes I know are in the SZD Junior.

I've normally never needed or use more than half brake in a Junior, but
this time there was a strong wind, so I turned base to finals at 600-700
ft barely downwind of the threshold and stopped rolling less than 100m
into the field. That was a 65+ kt approach flown with full brakes. I saw
almost no float after rounding out: with that much brake a Junior turns
into a fairly decent brick. I knew it was a windy day: I got 2700 ft on
the winch - with the winch placed about 4000 ft from the launch point.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Thank God summer is nearly here. Is choosing an air brake extension level really that hard? I can’t remember a single landing where I thought, “damn, Wrong airbrake setting�.

Seems like an extended winter boredom thread to me!

At 15:17 03 April 2018, wrote:
Just for the sport of it I'll point out that the 1-26 manual suggests
reducing spoilers just before touchdown. POH also notes touchdown
with
full spoilers is OK at 50 mph.
Wonder how they land 1-26s in England?

As far as I am aware we don't, there are no metal monstrosities in the
UK, apart from the YS53 :-)

At 15:17 03 April 2018, greggballou wrote:
Wonder how they land 1-26s in England?


On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 7:00:07 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:
As far as I am aware we don't, there are no metal monstrosities in the
UK, apart from the YS53 :-)

It's socially acceptable to say bad things about the SGS 2-33, but hold the bad words about the SGS 1-26 until you've flown a nice one on a weak day with not much wind.