Refinishing Ventus b Fuselage

27K to 35K for a refinish?!
Jeez the Fleet is in trouble, who's got that kind of money?

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 5:39:19 PM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
27K to 35K for a refinish?!
Jeez the Fleet is in trouble, who's got that kind of money?

Sprayed hopefully the last coat of Vinyl Ester Fairing Primer.
Material specifications on the website.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ventus.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 8:39:19 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
27K to 35K for a refinish?!
Jeez the Fleet is in trouble, who's got that kind of money?

Ya think?
That is why I have helped one local club to get up to speed on refinishing their ships as club projects. They are on their third project this year.
Our club refinished our '21 a few years ago..
Another club in our area is going to give it a shot this year with support from P3 and myself.
UH

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 7:03:44 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 8:39:19 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
27K to 35K for a refinish?!
Jeez the Fleet is in trouble, who's got that kind of money?

Ya think?
That is why I have helped one local club to get up to speed on refinishing their ships as club projects. They are on their third project this year.
Our club refinished our '21 a few years ago..
Another club in our area is going to give it a shot this year with support from P3 and myself.
UH

One club member (ACA) expressed this as a rewarding club experience at the Focus on Clubs luncheon a couple of SSA Conventions ago. Other clubs have done similar projects. I recall one (SSB) that polished a 1-34 to gain a bunch of payload. Another (TBSS) where, at one time, the entire fleet was insurance salvage returned to service. And others that have built facilities.. I would suggest that projects that put gliders and keep gliders in the air are the best as club activities.

Frank Whiteley

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 9:25:48 AM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 7:03:44 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 8:39:19 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
27K to 35K for a refinish?!
Jeez the Fleet is in trouble, who's got that kind of money?

Ya think?
That is why I have helped one local club to get up to speed on refinishing their ships as club projects. They are on their third project this year..
Our club refinished our '21 a few years ago..
Another club in our area is going to give it a shot this year with support from P3 and myself.
UH

One club member (ACA) expressed this as a rewarding club experience at the Focus on Clubs luncheon a couple of SSA Conventions ago. Other clubs have done similar projects. I recall one (SSB) that polished a 1-34 to gain a bunch of payload. Another (TBSS) where, at one time, the entire fleet was insurance salvage returned to service. And others that have built facilities. I would suggest that projects that put gliders and keep gliders in the air are the best as club activities.

Frank Whiteley

ACA Chief Refinishing Officer here... A lot of us agree that refinishing and restoring our gliders is one of the best team-building exercises out there. Over the years the enthusiasm ebbs and flows, but there are two constants.

One, you need a prime motivator. Back in the day, ACA had Jack Greene. You could bring in a 1-26 that had been balled up to the size of a VW Bug, and 6 months later a 1-26 would emerge (more or less :-))

20 years ago one of our guys caught the bug and refinished our 1-26 and 2-33 in matching livery.

Second, you need a shop. The biggest hurdle for a while was the lack of a consistent workspace. We migrated from garage to barn to shed. Finally, two years back we started renting a shop at the airport, and we now have the infrastructure we need.

In the last 7 or so years we've refinished and restored a Grob Twin Astir, LS4, 2-33 fuselage, Komet Trailer (now far and away the nicest Komet in the country), and started on an LS3. Also, we've done way more preventative maintenance than we did in the past. I'd say over 50 members have had their hands in various parts of this work.

P3

UH and P3 should give a presentation on how to manage refinishing projects using inexperienced staff (e.g., club members). I suspect M&H could contribute as they've taken a lot of young helpers from neophyte to expert stage over the years. The point is that you don't need a club full of expert repair people if you have a few experienced hands and good management. The latter is critical: turning a newbie loose with an 80-grit random orbital sander on the trailing edge of a wing or control surface without oversight can be disastrous.

Newcomers also need to be prepared to check their egos at the door. There are just so many ways you can (and almost certainly will) screw up with only a few seconds of inattention. I could give a presentation on that based on helping maestro UH refinish my ASW 24 the past two winters!

Chip Bearden

Having been around for "metal/fabric" gliders and composites over several decades, knowledge is great, but time is the issue.
I have been around from the beginning on metal/fabric hands on, watched composite from the beginning although I am usually late in the game hands on. Mostly "great finish" with lots of time.
Yes, machines is part of it, suitable location is another part (lunch at midday is nice!), this all costs someone something.
Experience is another thing.
I know Papa3 has learned from the "Skunkworks" over the years.
It is dusty, dirty, time consuming work for either type. Even cheap labor can get expensive.
Yes, I have been involved with "flat sand, polish" to prolong existing crap gel coat up to full refinish.
It all takes time, tools, knowledge and a decent place to work.

Yes, this can be a great club exercise, at least some members understand what is involved if you don't maintain what you already have.
Then again, it can be easy to take a simple job and make it expensive (not watching cords, wrap it in a polisher, punch holes in bits......I have done a repolish after the glass fix......).

This is NOT a, "I want to save money, spend a bit, make it great!". Yes you can, then again, it is real easy to F up.......then it gets expensive real fast.

Le jeudi 25 octobre 2018 02:39:19 UTC+2, Nick Kennedy a écritÂ*:
27K to 35K for a refinish?!
Jeez the Fleet is in trouble, who's got that kind of money?

We've just got back one of our LS4 from Slovenia. PU + interior + €3000 of repair come up to €18000.

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 9:24:14 AM UTC-4, Tango Whisky wrote:
Le jeudi 25 octobre 2018 02:39:19 UTC+2, Nick Kennedy a écritÂ*:
27K to 35K for a refinish?!
Jeez the Fleet is in trouble, who's got that kind of money?

We've just got back one of our LS4 from Slovenia. PU + interior + €3000 of repair come up to €18000.

For those of us who speak USD... that's roughly $17K (excluding the repair component). Now, getting the ship there and back including insurance, brokers, transport to/from port etc. from the US is another $4K conservatively assuming you are on or near the east coast. Add a few thousand more if you're west of the Mississippi. We're back to somewhere in the "low $20K" levels somewhat optimistically.

If only it was this easy...

https://youtu.be/gr9ZAsySaD0

https://youtu.be/nx_ta3rABeY

PA