Iran's nuclear program

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
500kgs of unenriched yellowcake, 500kgs of wepons grade
uranium packed as described would produce a prompt
criticallity event.


Not if they loaded the way they they loaded U-234.

The manifest states it was packed in 10 cases.

Each case would weigh 56kgs , this is way above
the critical mass of highly enriched uranium. Only
a suicidal lunatic would pack enriched uranium this way
and not for very long.

Alone the way how they were packed and transported proves that the cargo
of
U-234 was not yellow cake.

The gentlemen concerned disagree , I prefer their version to yours.

I know this gentleman (in person).period.


Sure you do.

Keith

In article ,
"Keith Willshaw" writes:

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
500kgs of unenriched yellowcake, 500kgs of wepons grade
uranium packed as described would produce a prompt
criticallity event.


Not if they loaded the way they they loaded U-234.

The manifest states it was packed in 10 cases.

Each case would weigh 56kgs , this is way above
the critical mass of highly enriched uranium. Only
a suicidal lunatic would pack enriched uranium this way
and not for very long.

Alone the way how they were packed and transported proves that the cargo
of
U-234 was not yellow cake.

The gentlemen concerned disagree , I prefer their version to yours.

I know this gentleman (in person).period.


Sure you do.

Well, that's interesting - since I know/knew (most have passed on),
several of the people who participated in unloading U-234, both as
supervisors and workmen. It certainly wasn't Enriched Uraniam -
definitely Yellowcake, and quite a haul of Platinum, as well. Oh, and
a Jumo 004, and a lot of paper & microfilmed documents.

If Denyav wants to have any credibility, he's going to have to name names.
I don't expect it, though - he's already established that he's either
from a parallel universe, or Neptune (The other Blue Planet)

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

ach case would weigh 56kgs , this is way above
the critical mass of highly enriched uranium. Only
a suicidal lunatic would pack enriched uranium this way
and not for very long.


Maybe the same lunatic would label boxes as U-235 (You know what does it mean
surely).They were clearly marked as U-235

But even a lunatic would not use Gold lined boxes to ship "Yellowcake".But
cases unloaded from U-234 were Gold lined.

BTW Who told you that there were only 10 cases? Navy prepared and disclosed
more than one doctored cargo manifests.
The first one mentions ten boxes,in subsequent ones even those ten boxes
disappeared.
So to find the truth you must check other sources too,for example the Army
Corps of Engineers which were closely associated with Manhattan Project.
According to Army Corps of Engineers correspondences there were 80 such
boxes,not 10.
Maybe those Germans were not lunatics at all.

BTW Mr.Willshaw U-234 cargo did not only contain U-235 or Blueprints of German
advanced weapons .it also contain Heavy Water.(Do you remember Germans could
not built a nuclear weapon because British Agents sent the ferry to bottom of
rhe lake)

Do you know why Manhattan Project was unable to develop a reliable Plutonium
bomb triggering device in 18 months?

Do you know why incompetent scientists of Manhattan Project who were unable to
develop rven one working triggering device in one and half years, suddenly
became soo competent and designed an excellent triggering device at the "very
last moment".

Bacause Manhattan Project Charlatan who "developed" triggering device at the
last moment and hailed as the Father of US plutonium bomb was a member US team
responsible for debriefing U-234 personel and evalutating U-234 cargo.
He simply took von Ardennes trigger and he was declared with Groves approval
as inventor.

But he was not sole Charlatan,whole Manhattan Project was a scam.
If you wonder why then try to find out why enriched uran shipments which were
pretty
steady inprevious months,suddenly jumped up after june14.


Small note :U-234 cargo also included components of a breeder reactor,seemingly
historically export oriented Germans were not able to build a breeder reactor
for themselves ,but pretty capable of exporting of them.

Big lies do not last for forever,75 years is a pretty good compromise,I guess.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
ach case would weigh 56kgs , this is way above
the critical mass of highly enriched uranium. Only
a suicidal lunatic would pack enriched uranium this way
and not for very long.


Maybe the same lunatic would label boxes as U-235 (You know what does it
mean
surely).They were clearly marked as U-235


Says you and the conspiracy websites, the cargo
manifest produced by the USN

But even a lunatic would not use Gold lined boxes to ship "Yellowcake".But
cases unloaded from U-234 were Gold lined.


Gold lining is useful to reduce corrosion, belgian yellowcake
was milled by crushing the ore and leaching out the U3O8
using sulphuric acid. A corrosion resistant can was rather useful

Contrary to popular belief U-235 does not require storage
in gold line containers

BTW Who told you that there were only 10 cases?

The USN and the U-Boat crew in their depositions
and the German cargo manifest which listed

"10 cases, 560 kilograms, uranium oxide for the Japanese Army "


Navy prepared and disclosed
more than one doctored cargo manifests.
The first one mentions ten boxes,in subsequent ones even those ten boxes
disappeared.

Nope, I've seen the manifests

So to find the truth you must check other sources too,for example the Army
Corps of Engineers which were closely associated with Manhattan Project.
According to Army Corps of Engineers correspondences there were 80 such
boxes,not 10.

Each case contained 8 cyliners

Maybe those Germans were not lunatics at all.


They werent , they just didnt have any enriched uranoium

BTW Mr.Willshaw U-234 cargo did not only contain U-235 or Blueprints of
German
advanced weapons .it also contain Heavy Water.(Do you remember Germans
could
not built a nuclear weapon because British Agents sent the ferry to bottom
of
rhe lake)


The Germans couldnt build a nuclear weapon because

1) They never enriched uranium in more than minute conditions
2) They never produced plutonium
3) Most importantly - they didnt know how


Do you know why Manhattan Project was unable to develop a reliable
Plutonium
bomb triggering device in 18 months?


Sure , it took around 4 years

Do you know why incompetent scientists of Manhattan Project who were
unable to
develop rven one working triggering device in one and half years, suddenly
became soo competent and designed an excellent triggering device at the
"very
last moment".


Because thats what research gets you

Bacause Manhattan Project Charlatan who "developed" triggering device at
the
last moment and hailed as the Father of US plutonium bomb was a member US
team
responsible for debriefing U-234 personel and evalutating U-234 cargo.
He simply took von Ardennes trigger and he was declared with Groves
approval
as inventor.


Von Ardennes couldnt design a trigger for a crossbow

But he was not sole Charlatan,whole Manhattan Project was a scam.
If you wonder why then try to find out why enriched uran shipments which
were
pretty
steady inprevious months,suddenly jumped up after june14.


They didnt


Small note :U-234 cargo also included components of a breeder
reactor,seemingly
historically export oriented Germans were not able to build a breeder
reactor
for themselves ,but pretty capable of exporting of them.


Thats about the silliest thing you've ever said

Big lies do not last for forever,75 years is a pretty good compromise,I
guess.

Lies are your area of expertise not mine,

Keith




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Says you and the conspiracy websites, the cargo
manifest produced by the USN

Not even once ,in one ten boxes mentioned in others no boxes at all.
USN manifests are designed to convince outside world that the Cargo of U-234
was not so important whereas internal correspondences,for example Army Corps of
Engineers,tells a totally different story.
Gold lining is useful to reduce corrosion, belgian yellowcake
was milled by crushing the ore and leaching out the U3O8
using sulphuric acid. A corrosion

You forgat to mention Manhattan Project too used gold lined containers to
transport u-235

Contrary to popular belief U-235 does not require storage
in gold line containers

But Germans ,even though any material was a premium in Third Reich,stored them
in Gold lined boxes.

The USN and the U-Boat crew in their depositions
and the German cargo manifest which listed

"10 cases, 560 kilograms, uranium oxide for the Japanese Army "

This the first cargo manifest prepared by the Navy,in subsequent ones there is
not even ten boxes.

As I said before the recently revealed correspondence between Manhattan Project
and Army Corps of Engineers officials tell a totally different story.
This corresponce reveal many things that nobody knew,at least officially, up to
now,according to Engineers Uran was transported in 80 boxes not 10 or like
later USN cargo manifest said 0 boxes.

Nope, I've seen the manifests
Only the first manifest mentions 10 boxes.

Each case contained 8 cyliners

Which means 80 containers,made of steel,lead and gold.


They werent , they just didnt have any enriched uranoium

Its hard to be conspiracy custodian nowadays,they had plenty of them enough to
export other countries.


The Germans couldnt build a nuclear weapon because

1) They never enriched uranium in more than minute conditions
The country that was unable to produce sufficent U-235 in spite of 2 Billion
dollar spent ,was US not Germany,the Jump in US U-235 shipments in June is
solely because of seized German U-235 stocks.
2) They never produced plutonium
Klein-Machow?
Heck,They never produced but they were even exporting the components of Breeder
reactor to Japan.
Sofar for 60 YO big lies.

3) Most importantly - they didnt know how


3) Most importantly - they didnt know how

Only guy who really did not know how ,was the head of Tarnforshung and your
post WWII decoy namely Heisenberg.
Sure , it took around 4 years
Right they could do it in long time.

Because thats what research gets you


Interesting,can you explain how MP scientist that could not design a reliable
ignitor for years ,suddenly literaly overnight ,designed a perfect ignitor at
the last moment?

Truth is Mr.Willshaw this scientist was a member of US team that examined U-534
cargo and he simply found Von Ardennes ignitor among cargo.

For some Manhattan Projecters research meant waiting for the arrival of U-234.

Von Ardennes couldnt design a trigger for a crossbow

Von Ardenne,unlike Einstein or Heisenberg,was an universal Genius,he could
design anything or solve any problem if he would believe that he could make
money by doing this,a 30s version of Stephen Wolfram.

They didnt

Check the Uran shipment data.

Thats about the silliest thing you've ever said
If the occupation of Germany delayed only by a couple of months not only New
Yorkers ,Washingtonians and Londoners had to deal with the effects of nuclear
weapons,but also US Fleet in Pasific.
Its really a big twist of the fate that German nuclear weapons that supposed to
be used by Japanase aganist advancing US,were used by US aganist Japanese.

Lies are your area of expertise not mine,

Sure there is no lies in Anglo history,just bad intelligence or classified
documents.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Says you and the conspiracy websites, the cargo
manifest produced by the USN

Not even once ,in one ten boxes mentioned in others no boxes at all.
USN manifests are designed to convince outside world that the Cargo of
U-234
was not so important whereas internal correspondences,for example Army
Corps of
Engineers,tells a totally different story.
Gold lining is useful to reduce corrosion, belgian yellowcake
was milled by crushing the ore and leaching out the U3O8
using sulphuric acid. A corrosion

You forgat to mention Manhattan Project too used gold lined containers to
transport u-235


No I didnt because it aint true

Contrary to popular belief U-235 does not require storage
in gold line containers

But Germans ,even though any material was a premium in Third Reich,stored
them
in Gold lined boxes.


Germans had no U-235 to store

The USN and the U-Boat crew in their depositions
and the German cargo manifest which listed

"10 cases, 560 kilograms, uranium oxide for the Japanese Army "

This the first cargo manifest prepared by the Navy,in subsequent ones
there is
not even ten boxes.


Its the one on the boat.

As I said before the recently revealed correspondence between Manhattan
Project
and Army Corps of Engineers officials tell a totally different story.
This corresponce reveal many things that nobody knew,at least officially,
up to
now,according to Engineers Uran was transported in 80 boxes not 10 or like
later USN cargo manifest said 0 boxes.


Cargo manifests are drawn up by the shipper, this was the
Kriegsmarine not the USN

Nope, I've seen the manifests
Only the first manifest mentions 10 boxes.

Each case contained 8 cyliners

Which means 80 containers,made of steel,lead and gold.


Steel with a lining of gold leaf


They werent , they just didnt have any enriched uranoium

Its hard to be conspiracy custodian nowadays,they had plenty of them
enough to
export other countries.


The Germans couldnt build a nuclear weapon because

1) They never enriched uranium in more than minute conditions
The country that was unable to produce sufficent U-235 in spite of 2
Billion
dollar spent ,was US not Germany,the Jump in US U-235 shipments in June is
solely because of seized German U-235 stocks.

There was no such jump, By January 1945 the K-12 plant at Oak Ridge
was producing 204 grams of weapons grade uranium per day

2) They never produced plutonium
Klein-Machow?

Was neither a reactor nor a reprocessing plant

Heck,They never produced but they were even exporting the components of
Breeder
reactor to Japan.
Sofar for 60 YO big lies.


Yet no Japanese or German record of this exists nor is
there any evidence for this fairy tale.

3) Most importantly - they didnt know how


3) Most importantly - they didnt know how

Only guy who really did not know how ,was the head of Tarnforshung and
your
post WWII decoy namely Heisenberg.
Sure , it took around 4 years
Right they could do it in long time.

Because thats what research gets you


Interesting,can you explain how MP scientist that could not design a
reliable
ignitor for years ,suddenly literaly overnight ,designed a perfect ignitor
at
the last moment?

Truth is Mr.Willshaw this scientist was a member of US team that examined
U-534
cargo and he simply found Von Ardennes ignitor among cargo.


An anonymous scientist is alleged to have found a non-existent
device, my what an imagination you have.


For some Manhattan Projecters research meant waiting for the arrival of
U-234.

Von Ardennes couldnt design a trigger for a crossbow

Von Ardenne,unlike Einstein or Heisenberg,was an universal Genius,he could
design anything or solve any problem if he would believe that he could
make
money by doing this,a 30s version of Stephen Wolfram.


He was a specialist in electronics and a convinced communist
who worked on nuclear weapons for the USSR after the
war. He was not part of the Nazi group as he was considered
a security risk.

The germans were good at excluding people who were able.

Keith





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No I didnt because it aint true


Yeah right then Clarence Larsen must be lying.

Germans had no U-235 to store

Yeah right,they used 80 gold lined ,lead-steel containers to ship only 500kgs
"yellowcake".
I guess the Third Reich in 1945 had more gold,steel and lead than they needed
so they used every excuse to get rid of excess materials.

Its the one on the boat.

Interesting,could you please tell me what the Labels of containers stated?

Cargo manifests are drawn up by the shipper, this was the
Kriegsmarine not the USN


Sure,the Shipper had also labelled the shipment containers.right?

Its the one on the boat.


In 2.Cargo Manifest prepared by USN on June,16 there is no Uran,enriched or
not.
Steel with a lining of gold leaf
Again you forgat lead

There was no such jump, By January 1945 the K-12 plant at Oak Ridge
was producing 204 grams of weapons grade uranium per day

Dare to compare production figures before and after June14.
After June 14 German U-235 supplies added to Oak Ridge production.

Was neither a reactor nor a reprocessing plant

Yeah right ,also no heavy water found aboard U-234 and and British troops
found no Heavy Water in Hamburg.

Yet no Japanese or German record of this exists nor is
there any evidence for this fairy tale.

As far as I remember both countries,were under Anglo occupation for long time
and a shameless brainwashing process carried out by Anglos in both countries.
I wonder if anybody heard the names like Klein-Machow,Skoda or Pilsen in
W.Germany in connection with German Nuclear program before 90s.
But surely everbody heard the name of Heisenberg and his failures.

An anonymous scientist is alleged to have found a non-existent
device, my what an imagination you have.

Not so anonymous,everbody knows who developed the triggering device for US
plutonium bomb at the literally last minute.But only a few know that this
scientist were among team members who investigated U-234 cargo.
This Gentleman devoleped triggering device right after he checked cargo.
(Before the arrival of U234 he and other MH scientists tried to develop a
triggering device for 18 months,but without any success, apparently the arrival
of U-234 helped to increase the IQ number of MH scientists)

He was a specialist in electronics and a convinced communist
who worked on nuclear weapons for the USSR after the
war. He was not part of the Nazi group as he was considered
a security risk.

Von Ardenne a communist? I wonder when you are going to call Bill Gates or
Stephen Wolfram a communist.

No,he was a successfull entrepreneur,a businessman not a communist.

After WWII Soviets treated him like royals and declared many German research
facilities as his own personal property(Needless to say all these facilities
were funded by German taxpayers and owned by 3.Reich).


For example,if US occupied by a foreign power and if this foreign power
declares Lawrence-Livermore and Oak Ridge Nat.Labs as the personal property of
a scientist working there,this scientist would be very fond of this foreign
power.

The germans were good at excluding people who were able.


But Manhattan Project still would only need a receiving department to take care
of bomb components and fissile materials "imported" from Germany and a final
assembly line and saved 2 Billion dollars.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
No I didnt because it aint true


Yeah right then Clarence Larsen must be lying.

Germans had no U-235 to store

Yeah right,they used 80 gold lined ,lead-steel containers to ship only
500kgs
"yellowcake".
I guess the Third Reich in 1945 had more gold,steel and lead than they
needed
so they used every excuse to get rid of excess materials.


Note the containers are not noted as being lead lined and the
evidence for their being gold plated is debatable

Uranium 235 is not significantly more radioactive than yellowcake,
and its less corrosive than crudely milled yellowcake. It does
not require lead shielding

There is LESS reason to ship enriched uranium such
containers than yellowcake, its a relatively stable
material whereas Belgian milled yellowcake was
quite acidic

Shipping enriched uranium in the manner described would
cause a criticallity accident

Its the one on the boat.

Interesting,could you please tell me what the Labels of containers stated?

Cargo manifests are drawn up by the shipper, this was the
Kriegsmarine not the USN


Sure,the Shipper had also labelled the shipment containers.right?


Correct

Its the one on the boat.


In 2.Cargo Manifest prepared by USN on June,16 there is no Uran,enriched
or
not.
Steel with a lining of gold leaf
Again you forgat lead

There was no such jump, By January 1945 the K-12 plant at Oak Ridge
was producing 204 grams of weapons grade uranium per day

Dare to compare production figures before and after June14.

I have , they are essentially the same with fluctuations of
a few %

After June 14 German U-235 supplies added to Oak Ridge production.


With no noticeable effect

Was neither a reactor nor a reprocessing plant

Yeah right ,also no heavy water found aboard U-234 and and British troops
found no Heavy Water in Hamburg.

Yet no Japanese or German record of this exists nor is
there any evidence for this fairy tale.

As far as I remember both countries,were under Anglo occupation for long
time
and a shameless brainwashing process carried out by Anglos in both
countries.
I wonder if anybody heard the names like Klein-Machow,Skoda or Pilsen in
W.Germany in connection with German Nuclear program before 90s.
But surely everbody heard the name of Heisenberg and his failures.


Yawn

An anonymous scientist is alleged to have found a non-existent
device, my what an imagination you have.

Not so anonymous,everbody knows who developed the triggering device for US
plutonium bomb at the literally last minute.

Klaus Fuchs was acknowledged to have played a leading
part in the development of implosion physics. Something
the Germans had done zero work on

But only a few know that this
scientist were among team members who investigated U-234 cargo.

Now if germany had 56 kg uranium why didnt
they build a bomb ?

Its s simple enough device which any competent arms factory
could produce in a couple of days. The design for the
Uranium bomb was frozen in feb 45 and all the parts
assembled awaiting the uranium components

56 kg would have given the Germans at least 2 nuclear
weapons so why did they decide to ship it to Japan
rather than use them on the Red Army which was
approaching Berlin ?

This Gentleman devoleped triggering device right after he checked cargo.
(Before the arrival of U234 he and other MH scientists tried to develop a
triggering device for 18 months,but without any success, apparently the
arrival
of U-234 helped to increase the IQ number of MH scientists)


The design of the implosion device was finished in March 45
and tested BEFORE U-234 was captured

He was a specialist in electronics and a convinced communist
who worked on nuclear weapons for the USSR after the
war. He was not part of the Nazi group as he was considered
a security risk.

Von Ardenne a communist? I wonder when you are going to call Bill Gates or
Stephen Wolfram a communist.

No,he was a successfull entrepreneur,a businessman not a communist.


Businessman my ass

A report found in the archives of the DDR described him
As an egotistical opportunist who could be kept in East Germany.
He was described as being very greedy and horribly and a
perfect collaborator. . He was llowed to set up a private research
institute in Dresden (with generous state grants) and gained the nickname
"the Red Baron."

The institute's financial security was guaranteed through an agreement
by Walter Ulbricht to allocate to it, every year, a number of state research
tasks.

Von Ardenne himself became an aristocrat in Ulbricht's nomenklatura state,
the winner of a National Prize 1st Class (in 1958) and other awards
and a member of the Volkskammer [the GDR Parliament].

Ulbricht went to great lengths to keep him sweet. He visited von Ardenne
the day after he arrived at his new institute. The visit had the desired
effect on the vain Baron who, thirty years later, wrote in his
autobiography:
"He seemed to be extraordinarily interested in our plans and stayed past
lunch into the afternoon."

A week later, the mayor of Dresden turned up at von Ardenne's front
door and presented him with a gift from Ulbricht-a Soviet SIS
limousine. Von Ardenne never had to drive the car himself; a
chauffeur came with it.

After WWII Soviets treated him like royals and declared many German
research
facilities as his own personal property(Needless to say all these
facilities
were funded by German taxpayers and owned by 3.Reich).


The third reich was long gone by 1958 old boy.


For example,if US occupied by a foreign power and if this foreign power
declares Lawrence-Livermore and Oak Ridge Nat.Labs as the personal
property of
a scientist working there,this scientist would be very fond of this
foreign
power.


Which means they thought he was a good communist.

The germans were good at excluding people who were able.


But Manhattan Project still would only need a receiving department to take
care
of bomb components and fissile materials "imported" from Germany and a
final
assembly line and saved 2 Billion dollars.


Nope they spent it, Germany had no fissile materials
and Von Ardenne spent the war working for the post
office. He did report that a calutron could
be used to enrich uranium this approach was decided
to be impractical.

Keith