Borgelt Dynamis variometer

The Butterfly Vario offers mixing in a pilot defined proportion of mems derived airmass input along with the probe pressure derived netto vario indication and displays it as the blue ball. The Dynamis seems to be a large step beyond that in terms of variometry but without the other inbuilt display and Nav functions of the Butterfly.

As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph

On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 7:01:23 PM UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph

The only thing I am aware of that MB has said about how the Dynamis works is that it is not by means of filters, specifically, from his Dynamis article:

"It is not a filtering problem as the vertical and horizontal motion occurs on the same time scales and has similar magnitude, making filters useless.."

On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 12:42:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 7:01:23 PM UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph

The only thing I am aware of that MB has said about how the Dynamis works is that it is not by means of filters, specifically, from his Dynamis article:

"It is not a filtering problem as the vertical and horizontal motion occurs on the same time scales and has similar magnitude, making filters useless."

Don't expect Mike to give you any REAL clues on how his systems works; after all, it is his trade secret. In fact, he may give you false clues to throw you off! One thing I would like to know, however, is the price of the system (that shouldn't be a trade secret).

Tom

On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 7:15:55 AM UTC+1, 2G wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 12:42:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 7:01:23 PM UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph

The only thing I am aware of that MB has said about how the Dynamis works is that it is not by means of filters, specifically, from his Dynamis article:

"It is not a filtering problem as the vertical and horizontal motion occurs on the same time scales and has similar magnitude, making filters useless."

Don't expect Mike to give you any REAL clues on how his systems works; after all, it is his trade secret. In fact, he may give you false clues to throw you off! One thing I would like to know, however, is the price of the system (that shouldn't be a trade secret).

Tom

Why not explain how and why it works?
This makes me a bit sceptical. Is there a patent application pending?
Looking at the videos, I can't see any difference that can't be explained by a longer integration time.

Yeh why not give away the fruits of many years of research, so others can copy it, sounds like a great idea to promote your business.

On Monday, March 25, 2019 at 1:08:29 AM UTC+1, Charlie Quebec wrote:
Yeh why not give away the fruits of many years of research, so others can copy it, sounds like a great idea to promote your business.

Ever heard of a concept called "Patent"?

Having studied both videos very closely several times I disagree that the Dynamis vario simply shows evidence of a longer integration time - quite the reverse, I see a faster and much more steady response. Watching the ASIs, altimeters and pitch changes at the same time and trying vicariously to "feel" the air suggests to me that the Dynamis Vario is better at showing real lift.

It will be great to have a third party expert flight report eventually. Until then I would tend to think that if MB puts his reputation on the line and says it is a significant advance then it most probably is. I think that it is unlikely that, after decades of development, and having written long ago that time filtering is no help in removing gust induced TE vario errors, he would then offer a longer integration time as a solution.

On Monday, March 25, 2019 at 4:50:50 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Having studied both videos very closely several times I disagree that the Dynamis vario simply shows evidence of a longer integration time - quite the reverse, I see a faster and much more steady response. Watching the ASIs, altimeters and pitch changes at the same time and trying vicariously to "feel" the air suggests to me that the Dynamis Vario is better at showing real lift.

It will be great to have a third party expert flight report eventually. Until then I would tend to think that if MB puts his reputation on the line and says it is a significant advance then it most probably is. I think that it is unlikely that, after decades of development, and having written long ago that time filtering is no help in removing gust induced TE vario errors, he would then offer a longer integration time as a solution.

Just wondering how this new vario compares to Air-Avionics butterfly (air-glide)?

What is ADC derived data?

On Monday, 18 March 2019 19:01:23 UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph