Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.

In article , ArtKramr
writes

The tighter the formation you fly the tighter the bomb pattern on the ground
and the more damage you do to the enemy.


http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer/stripes.htm





Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer



For a single pass at the target, that sounds okay - as long as the
formation as a whole is mastered accurately. However, how did the
formation attack compare with say a long string of B17s in trail, each
aiming individually? The formation attack must be all or nothing,
whereas the trail attack must result in a number of well-aimed drops
amongst the average ones.

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth

Dave Eadsforth wrote:

However, how did the
formation attack compare with say a long string of B17s in trail, each
aiming individually?

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

The formation attack must be all or nothing,
whereas the trail attack must result in a number of well-aimed drops
amongst the average ones.

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in? Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

Pete

From: "Pete"
Date: 8/23/2004 9:38 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

Pete

If art wanted to experience a real war I would have been glad to oblige by
having him next to me when I was in the Army in Viet Nam. Granted we had a
greater survival rate than the AAF did (before he got there) but he had a bed
to sleep in, hot meals and cold drinks. I don't think he would have lasted even
if he was 18 as I was.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (B2431)
Date: 8/23/2004 8:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: "Pete"
Date: 8/23/2004 9:38 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

Pete

If art wanted to experience a real war I would have been glad to oblige by
having him next to me when I was in the Army in Viet Nam. Granted we had a
greater survival rate than the AAF did (before he got there) but he had a bed
to sleep in, hot meals and cold drinks. I don't think he would have lasted
even
if he was 18 as I was.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Are't you the big hero.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (B2431)
Date: 8/23/2004 8:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: "Pete"
Date: 8/23/2004 9:38 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little
wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months,
over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off
the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you
in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

Pete

If art wanted to experience a real war I would have been glad to oblige
by
having him next to me when I was in the Army in Viet Nam. Granted we had
a
greater survival rate than the AAF did (before he got there) but he had a
bed
to sleep in, hot meals and cold drinks. I don't think he would have
lasted
even
if he was 18 as I was.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Are't you the big hero.

Little ****y tonight there aren't we Art?

Better call the nurse for some more medication.


Have her unplug that phone line also!

Edwin

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 8/23/2004 10:58 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (B2431)
Date: 8/23/2004 8:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: "Pete"
Date: 8/23/2004 9:38 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months,
over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

Pete

If art wanted to experience a real war I would have been glad to oblige by
having him next to me when I was in the Army in Viet Nam. Granted we had a
greater survival rate than the AAF did (before he got there) but he had a
bed
to sleep in, hot meals and cold drinks. I don't think he would have lasted
even
if he was 18 as I was.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Are't you the big hero.




Arthur Kramer


Art, of the two of us YOU are the only one bragging about his combat
experience. I don't like to discuss mine since it still hurts.

Please accept that my war was just as real as yours. Just stop bashing those
who haven't seen combat, the served just as honourably as you.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Pete" wrote in message
...

"ArtKramr" wrote
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little
wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months,
over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.

Jeez, Art! He was *agreeing* with you.

What a hoot! A couple of weeks ago Art was hammering one of his own, and now
he hammers Bufdrvr when he supports his own argument. Then of course he had
to add that tagline of his about "real wars"...where are all of his usual
cast of posterior-embracing buddies now?

Brooks


Pete

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 8/23/2004 4:13 PM Pacific Standard Time

In 1937, with career Army Air Corps crews, over Arizona with little wind
it
worked great! In 1943 with crews that had been in service 18 months, over
Germany with flak and fighters...not so well.

How the hell would you know?

Except a two mile long train of B-17s looks like donuts rolling off the
production line to an Me-109 pilot.


We never flew in "long trains". What rinky dink air force were you in?
Not
ours for sure. Too bad you never fought in a real war.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Art,
Bufdrvr is confirming, what you stated.!!

BMC