Rogue IFR

"David Reinhart" wrote in message
...
No instrument rating is required to get a SVFR clearance during the day.
You only
need an IFR rating to do SVFR at night, when the regs say the aircraft
must be
equipped for instrument flight and the pilot must be instrument qualified.

In Canada, you can get SVFR at night for the purpose of landing only. A
night rating is all that's required.

le moo




Dave Reinhart


"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

Happy Dog wrote:

I think that a controller would be very reluctant to deny an SVFR
clearance
into the zone.

It wouldn't matter. The pilot under discussion here doesn't have an
instrument
rating, so he can't get an SVFR clearance anyway.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the
mud.

It's not just an academic possibility. Anyone who thinks that weather,
and
reports of weather, are anywhere close to being as reliable as the sun
coming up each morning is fooling themselves. You can have one airplane
in
solid IMC, and another just 500' below, and one can be legally VFR while
the
other is legally IFR.

Understood.

Kobra

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ...
Happy Dog wrote:

I think that a controller would be very reluctant to deny an SVFR clearance
into the zone.

It wouldn't matter. The pilot under discussion here doesn't have an instrument
rating, so he can't get an SVFR clearance anyway.

Huh?

Since when is an IR necessary to get an sVFR clearance during
daylight hours (in US, where I know you fly George)?

Cheers,
Sydney

Newps wrote in message news:OXDmb.21587$mZ5.80201@attbi_s54...

The controller would say "the field is IFR say intentions." This is the
pilots warning that you can't land VFR, in case you somehow didn't get
the weather. If he comes back and says "I want to land." then I get to
treat him like the idiot he is.

Y'know, I sure hope this isn't exactly your SOP.

I was flying along, minding my own business VFR over a layer
one day, getting flight following from ZKC while heading for
southern MO. The layer was already broken, and the ASOS at
our destination airport was reporting clear so I wasn't too
worried about getting down.

I was listening to the female controller work a couple flights
over by Lake of the Ozarks. One plane, VFR evidently, was
asking for info about VFR wx conditions in sort of a strange way.
Suddenly a male voice took over and asked the pilot "say
your conditions of flight" then directly "are you IMC?" He
was very gentle and non-judgemental and provided a vector towards
a nearby airport, then rerouted a couple of IFR planes a bit.

Evidently it was a trainee controller working a pilot who'd
blundered into clouds and was trying to get out. The female
controller had kind of been "treating him like an idiot" but
something clued her superviser to a different possibility.
After a couple minutes the female voice took back over,
sounding a little flustered.

So, someone calls up and says "I want to land" when you've
told him the field is IFR. Now maybe he's a scofflaw idiot.

But maybe he's a relatively honest idiot -- someone who made
a mistake and got wx'd over his head and just doesn't remember
what "sVFR" is or how you ask for it. I know I've had those
"wheel spinning but the hamster's dead" moments myself, not in
this regard but in others.

In those circs, sure seems like a better SOP to ask "do you
require assistance?" or "are you requesting special VFR clearance?"
and ask the pilot to phone from the ground to suss him out and
decide if you're dealing with an honest idiot or a scofflaw jerk
then just "treat him like the idiot he is" and maybe have him
go away flustered and bend something.

Anyway, if I get into trouble someday I sure hope I draw the
male supe with the nice voice and not the "treat him like an
idiot until proven otherwise" trainee controller.

JMO of course.
Sydney

The difference here is that the field you were flying to is reporting
good VFR and you had that weather. My guy either didn't bother to get
the ATIS, which is why I told him the field is IFR, or he got the
weather and either didn't understand or didn't care. Either way saying
"the field is IFR say intentions" covers it.
I can tell the difference between someone who is in over their head
and someone who isn't. It is obvious on the radio, just like you heard
with that other aircraft.

Snowbird wrote:


Y'know, I sure hope this isn't exactly your SOP.

I was flying along, minding my own business VFR over a layer
one day, getting flight following from ZKC while heading for
southern MO. The layer was already broken, and the ASOS at
our destination airport was reporting clear so I wasn't too
worried about getting down.

I was listening to the female controller work a couple flights
over by Lake of the Ozarks. One plane, VFR evidently, was
asking for info about VFR wx conditions in sort of a strange way.
Suddenly a male voice took over and asked the pilot "say
your conditions of flight" then directly "are you IMC?" He
was very gentle and non-judgemental and provided a vector towards
a nearby airport, then rerouted a couple of IFR planes a bit.

Evidently it was a trainee controller working a pilot who'd
blundered into clouds and was trying to get out. The female
controller had kind of been "treating him like an idiot" but
something clued her superviser to a different possibility.
After a couple minutes the female voice took back over,
sounding a little flustered.

So, someone calls up and says "I want to land" when you've
told him the field is IFR. Now maybe he's a scofflaw idiot.

But maybe he's a relatively honest idiot -- someone who made
a mistake and got wx'd over his head and just doesn't remember
what "sVFR" is or how you ask for it. I know I've had those
"wheel spinning but the hamster's dead" moments myself, not in
this regard but in others.

In those circs, sure seems like a better SOP to ask "do you
require assistance?" or "are you requesting special VFR clearance?"
and ask the pilot to phone from the ground to suss him out and
decide if you're dealing with an honest idiot or a scofflaw jerk
then just "treat him like the idiot he is" and maybe have him
go away flustered and bend something.

Anyway, if I get into trouble someday I sure hope I draw the
male supe with the nice voice and not the "treat him like an
idiot until proven otherwise" trainee controller.

JMO of course.
Sydney

Why would a "meat bomb" flight be announcing on an Approach frequency?

When you let loose meat bombs, you have to notify the controlling agency of the
airspace you are in, usually approach or Center. They usually like to hear a a
one minute call and also a jumpers away call.

-John
Former Skydiver Driver or Elevator.

Recently, Roger Long om
posted:

We're talking here about a 150-200 hour pilot with no instrument
training other than that required for the PP
intentionally launching into weather that some new IFR ticket holders
would have the sense to avoid.

Being at about that level of experience myself, I can't imagine
anyone being tempted to try this without the very accurate position
information provided by the GPS.

I'm not so sure that the biggest problem is one's location. Take a look at
the numbers of accidents which involve pilots losing their orientation
references. GPS isn't fast enough to be a good substitute for the gauges.
Also, take a look at the numbers involving impact with obstacles while in
IMC, which most GPS units don't give information about. Then, take a look
at the flying time those involved in such accidents have. Playing around
in the soup is just not safe flying, regardless of how many hours a pilot
has.

Regards,

Neil

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

That doesn't mean ATC can rely on them to KNOW something.


Of course it does. If a pilot says he's in the clouds ATC knows he's in
IMC.



Besides, even a PIREP does not imply IFR conditions in the exact spot the
target is flying. The PIREP is valid for a specific point in space at a
specific point in time. Assuming there was no collision, obviously the
target aircraft was not in that specific point in space at that specific
point in time.


The airplanes don't have to be at exactly the same point. If a pilot
reports he's in the clouds then any other aircraft within 2000 feet
horizontally, 1000 feet above, or 500 feet below of the reporting aircraft
is in IMC.



It's pretty funny, actually, the way you can't help yourself and insist on
arguing even when someone is supporting the point you're trying to make.
Thanks for the good laugh...


I was responding only to the part of your message that was incorrect.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

Yes but as far as the FAA "officially" is concerned, they are "anecdotal"
when it comes to enforcement actions.


We're not talking about enforcement actions.

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
. ..

I think that a controller would be very reluctant to deny an SVFR
clearance into the zone. (Unless the weather at the field was below
IFR minimums.) Maybe a controller here can comment.


The question concerns an arriving VFR aircraft, no mention of a request for
a SVFR clearance. I'm not sure what you mean by "below IFR minimums". A
fixed-wing SVFR clearance requires a minimum of one mile surface visibility.