Silly controller

Jose wrote:

"Tracy", being an uncontrolled airport in NorCal's area, wouldn't have
any strips at all :-)


Just because it's uncontrolled doesn't mean they don't have strips.



And where do these strips go if there's nobody there to receive them?

Just because it's uncontrolled doesn't mean they don't have strips.
And where do these strips go if there's nobody there to receive them?

See the thread "Great fly-in destination (New York/New Jersey)".

I think there's a cover charge.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Newps wrote:
wrote:

Separation services must be given until the pilot reports completion of
the approach(uncontrolled field) or lands/goes missed(tower). I can
cancel your approach clearance but better have a damn good reason.

Okay, but what terminology do you use to get the pilot to report
"completion"? Say there isn't a tower and you want to let the pilot
switch to the CTAF.

wrote:
Newps wrote:

wrote:

Separation services must be given until the pilot reports completion of
the approach(uncontrolled field) or lands/goes missed(tower). I can
cancel your approach clearance but better have a damn good reason.


Okay, but what terminology do you use to get the pilot to report
"completion"? Say there isn't a tower and you want to let the pilot
switch to the CTAF.

"Report completion of the approach, change to advisory freq approved."
Now I should have added that if the pilot never reports it doesn't shut
down the airport like if an IFR doesn't cancel. We are told to use our
best judgement. It's bureaucratic mumbo jumbo but that's the rules we
have to operate under.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.



No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."


How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
news:004301c6c98f$b7d9d310$4001a8c0@omnibook6100.. .

The phraseology for loss of radar contact is "radar contact lost", not
"radar service terminated".


Steve,
Do they still advise "radar contact lost, radar service
terminated, cleared for the approach..."? I seem to remember getting
that when I used to go into Gunnison, Co. years ago.



I hope not.


I often go IFR into KBIH from the northwest. The airport is at 4,100
feet, MSL. Oakland Center typically loses radar contact when we leave
16,000, or so. It is a one-in/one-out airport.

Oakland Center has an RCO on the airport so we are sometimes told to
switch to advisory frequency, sometimes we are not.

It is a toss up whether the controller will say "radar service
terminated," or, "radar contact lost..radar service terminated."
Sometimes, the controller will simply say "radar service terminated."

Bottom line: "radar contact lost" or "radar service terminated" has
little, if any, practical difference in meaning to a pilot going into an
airport like Bishop.

Sam Spade wrote in news:FhrIg.196$c07.193@fed1read04:

How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

Request for an ILS approach is not a request for an IFR clearance using
CRAFT as guidelines. You have not met the C part of CRAFT

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

Nope, you were not cleared, nor were you on an IFR flight. You were VFR in
the beginning and was treated accordingly from what I have been reading.

ATC does not know what is outside YOUR window (VMC or IMC). The above ATC
instructions does not meet the C part of CRAFT (Cleared to)

Allen

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

I've had the situation where I've contacted SoCal approach just like
that, VFR, for an approach into STS (which was IFR with nighttime fog).
They gave me a squawk and all, but told me to maintain VFR while they
worked out an actual IFR clearance. At some point I was given a hard
IFR altitude (they used that phrase) and said "you are now IFR". I
don't remember whether they said "cleared to", but I bet they did.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Sam Spade wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.



No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't maintain
VFR.

Sam Spade wrote:
Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

Nope. What you want to hear is "cleared to the Chino airport". Then
you're IFR.

On the other hand, "maintain 4,000" sure sounds pretty IFR-like. My best
guess is the controller probably meant to issue you a clearance limit of
the Chino airport but mis-spoke. On the other hand, he could still be
moving other traffic around, and won't be able to issue you your clearance
until he's got the blips separated sufficiently.

But, there's no need to guess, just ask the guy, "confirm 34B is IFR this
time?" He'll either confirm that you are indeed IFR, or he'll tell you
that you're not yet and why. It's great fun to nit-pick the FARs and AIM
and second-guess what a clearance must have meant on usenet, but in the
air, if you're ever unsure what the controller meant, don't play games; ask
for clarification.