How long before /G required for IFR?

wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:20:37 -0500, "Peter R."
wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.

How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

It's an intersection.

An intersection defined by the 015 radial off the Phoenix VOR and 22 DME.

How can an intersection be "outside the service volume"?

I didn't state that it was. I was just pointing out how this particular
intersection was defined.

At 22 DME from the navaid, I don't see how it could be outside the service
volume.

--
Peter













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Let's all back up for a moment, shall we?

Some of you may not know this, but FUBAR is a fairly commonly used acronym
in the US, standing for F*cked Up Beyond All Repair.

When I originally read this thread, I did not realize that there was
actually an intersection named "FUBAR", I thought it was a generic
reference, such as "Podunk, AR".

I thought the mythical FUBAR could be any waypoint, hence it could be a VOR,
and the aircraft could be outside of it's service volume.

Hope this serves as a clarification...




"Peter R." wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:20:37 -0500, "Peter R."
wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.

How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

It's an intersection.

An intersection defined by the 015 radial off the Phoenix VOR and 22
DME.

How can an intersection be "outside the service volume"?

I didn't state that it was. I was just pointing out how this particular
intersection was defined.

At 22 DME from the navaid, I don't see how it could be outside the service
volume.

--
Peter













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Newsgroups
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"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
. com...
Let's all back up for a moment, shall we?

Some of you may not know this, but FUBAR is a fairly commonly used acronym
in the US, standing for F*cked Up Beyond All Repair.

When I originally read this thread, I did not realize that there was
actually an intersection named "FUBAR", I thought it was a generic
reference, such as "Podunk, AR".

I thought the mythical FUBAR could be any waypoint, hence it could be a
VOR,
and the aircraft could be outside of it's service volume.

Hope this serves as a clarification...


Living in the Phoenix area, I see FUBAR on the chart all the time but I was
wondering if people were using it as a generic intersection name...guess
not.

;O)

Jay B

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:dAmVd.87488$Yu.618@fed1read01...
"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
. com...


Living in the Phoenix area, I see FUBAR on the chart all the time but I
was
wondering if people were using it as a generic intersection name...guess
not.

I started this thread , and I was using it as a generic. I'd intended
"foobar" which is widely recgnized as a placeholder by programmers, but I
figured if I wrote FOOBAR people would complain that I couldn't possibly be
cleared to a 6-letter intersection because there is no such thing, which
would invariably devolve into a debate on whether that sort of thing is
permitted by the FARs and a ****ing match between pilots and controllers
saying they only know what it says in the .65. Mission accomplished.

-cwk.

"KP" nospam@please wrote in
:

Non-radar routes don't have to be on Airways but "beyond usable navaid
limits" is the operative clause in this case.

Those limits may be the standard ones listed in AIM 1-1-8 or they may
be expanded ones authorized by FAAO 7110.65 4-1-2b.

We're going well beyond any navaid limits, often as much as 200 NM out.
Radar normally reaches 40 NM, if we're lucky, and rarely as much as 60 or
so. We're going not only past radar coverage, but beyond communications
coverage as well. We rely on remoted company radios to close plans and get
clearances, or else we just take off and contact center whenever we can, if
the weather permits. It's a sad situation.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

Andrew Gideon wrote in
online.com:

Making it stranger, one of the VORs on which LANNA is based is roughly
between the airport and LANNA. So a clearance "...SBJ v30 LANNA..."
would yield almost the exact same track *and* be flyable w/o GPS or
RADAR.

I've never understood why they use LANNA instead of SBJ as the first
fix.

Do you usually get vectored via V30 and over SBJ, or do you often fly
around it, a few miles off?

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:57:32 GMT, "Colin W Kingsbury"
wrote:


"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:dAmVd.87488$Yu.618@fed1read01...
"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
. com...


Living in the Phoenix area, I see FUBAR on the chart all the time but I
was
wondering if people were using it as a generic intersection name...guess
not.

I started this thread , and I was using it as a generic. I'd intended
"foobar" which is widely recgnized as a placeholder by programmers, but I
figured if I wrote FOOBAR people would complain that I couldn't possibly be
cleared to a 6-letter intersection because there is no such thing, which
would invariably devolve into a debate on whether that sort of thing is
permitted by the FARs and a ****ing match between pilots and controllers
saying they only know what it says in the .65. Mission accomplished.

-cwk.


nice job.

What chart do you see it on? I couldn't find it on L-4, nor was it
listed in airnav.com database...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...
What chart do you see it on? I couldn't find it on L-4, nor was it
listed in airnav.com database...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

Hmmm, looks like I sit corrected (at least as far as paper charts go...)

Golden Eagle flight planning software shows it as:

015r (027* true) 22nm (approx) from the Phoenix VOR (PXR)

Just about in the center of the NE quadrant of the Phoenix Class B airspace
where there is an almost square chunk of 7000-10000'.

But you're right, it isn't on either the Phoenix Sectional or the Phoenix
TAC.

Jay B

wrote:
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:


No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.



How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

I should have specified the navaid you are currently navigating off of.
For example direct FUBAR is not legal for the controller if FUBAR is
300 miles away.