i think I flew into class c airspace accidentally withoutestablishing communication

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
You said use of a VOR was in the PP requirements. It's not.
It was for me.


No it wasn't.

Yes it was. I had no other electronic nav system in the aircraft I took
my PPL checkride in.




But had you read the thread (and I know you did) you would have understood
that I was countering the argument of a student pilot that basically wrote
that non-instrument pilots shouldn't be using any electronic navigation
system as primary navigation. But I'm also sure you knew this as well and
just like starting arguments.


What you're sure of is incorrect.




So you just jumped into the thread without reading the previous and
quoted posts and acted like a dick. While I think you are lying it
doesn't really surprise me.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote in news:13pufkhth41bt33
@news.supernews.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"John" wrote in
news:mhEnj.5472$z_6.1509@trnddc06:

GPS should be your primary means of navigation.


Nope.



It is the most
accurate means of navigation available. As for the inside the cockpit
vs. outside the cockpit question, you don't stare at the GPS any more
then you stare at the airspeed indicator,vsi or compass.


Yes you do.



Bertie

Bull$hit Bertie. If you are Bertie.


It's acccurate, but it should be an overlay. I'm getting to see a lot of
pro pilots who overuse that crap. They have no idea where they are. They're
not running pictures in their heads...They're buried in the boxes.


Bertie

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...

You said use of a VOR was in the PP requirements. It's not.


It was for me.


No it wasn't.


Yes it was. I had no other electronic nav system in the aircraft I took my
PPL checkride in.


No it wasn't. The PP requirements are not altered by the equipment in the
aircraft used for the checkride.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:

Not that I would disagree with what you said above, g but what if the
plane the pilot wants to take the test in does not have a VOR reciever in
it? Can that plane be used, or do you have to find a different plane to
take the test in?

I never had seen that question asked or answered around here before.


I don't know the practical test standard has the part in it about showing
the skills to use electronic navigation. While any of the requirements
could be met with any number of systems, ADF, VOR, GPS, Loran. I have not
a clue as to how you would do it in say a Cub that didn't have any.

I fly with a student in a C-170B, that has an ADF and a GPS only. He
needs to show that he can track a bearing based on electronic navigation. No
VOR, no Problem.

Al G

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
You said use of a VOR was in the PP requirements. It's not.

It was for me.

No it wasn't.

Yes it was. I had no other electronic nav system in the aircraft I took my
PPL checkride in.


No it wasn't. The PP requirements are not altered by the equipment in the
aircraft used for the checkride.



Your sound more like MX every time you touch your keyboard.

Let's try something.

A. Is there a requirement in the PP standard to show use of a electronic
navigation system?
If Yes go to B.
If No you're an idiot I already posted the requirement.

B. If VOR is the only electronic navigation system in the plane how will
one be tested on an ADF, GPS or anything else?

Al G wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:

Not that I would disagree with what you said above, g but what if the
plane the pilot wants to take the test in does not have a VOR reciever in
it? Can that plane be used, or do you have to find a different plane to
take the test in?

I never had seen that question asked or answered around here before.

I don't know the practical test standard has the part in it about showing
the skills to use electronic navigation. While any of the requirements
could be met with any number of systems, ADF, VOR, GPS, Loran. I have not
a clue as to how you would do it in say a Cub that didn't have any.

I fly with a student in a C-170B, that has an ADF and a GPS only. He
needs to show that he can track a bearing based on electronic navigation. No
VOR, no Problem.

Al G



That's the question though Al. What if that C-170B had neither an ADF or
a GPS.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote in
:

Al G wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:

Not that I would disagree with what you said above, g but what if
the plane the pilot wants to take the test in does not have a VOR
reciever in it? Can that plane be used, or do you have to find a
different plane to take the test in?

I never had seen that question asked or answered around here
before.

I don't know the practical test standard has the part in it about
showing the skills to use electronic navigation. While any of the
requirements could be met with any number of systems, ADF, VOR, GPS,
Loran. I have not a clue as to how you would do it in say a Cub that
didn't have any.

I fly with a student in a C-170B, that has an ADF and a GPS only.
He
needs to show that he can track a bearing based on electronic
navigation. No VOR, no Problem.

Al G



That's the question though Al. What if that C-170B had neither an ADF
or a GPS.


I used to teach in J-3s and we had to check the students out in a Cesna
170 or a 150 before sending them off for their check rides so they could
do a little hood time, night time and radio time. they did them in one
of those two airplanes as well.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Gig 601XL Builder wrote in
:

Al G wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:

Not that I would disagree with what you said above, g but what if
the plane the pilot wants to take the test in does not have a VOR
reciever in it? Can that plane be used, or do you have to find a
different plane to take the test in?

I never had seen that question asked or answered around here
before.

I don't know the practical test standard has the part in it about
showing the skills to use electronic navigation. While any of the
requirements could be met with any number of systems, ADF, VOR, GPS,
Loran. I have not a clue as to how you would do it in say a Cub that
didn't have any.

I fly with a student in a C-170B, that has an ADF and a GPS only.
He
needs to show that he can track a bearing based on electronic
navigation. No VOR, no Problem.

Al G



That's the question though Al. What if that C-170B had neither an ADF
or a GPS.


I used to teach in J-3s and we had to check the students out in a Cesna
170 or a 150 before sending them off for their check rides so they could
do a little hood time, night time and radio time. they did them in one
of those two airplanes as well.


Bertie

The practical test standards require that you show navigation by
electronic aids.
You would have to use an aircraft that had one, bring one along, or install
it. You could probably rent an aircraft for that part of the checkride only,
but again, you would have to be legal in it.

Al G

"Al G" wrote in
news

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Gig 601XL Builder wrote in
:

Al G wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:

Not that I would disagree with what you said above, g but what
if the plane the pilot wants to take the test in does not have a
VOR reciever in it? Can that plane be used, or do you have to
find a different plane to take the test in?

I never had seen that question asked or answered around here
before.

I don't know the practical test standard has the part in it about
showing the skills to use electronic navigation. While any of the
requirements could be met with any number of systems, ADF, VOR,
GPS, Loran. I have not a clue as to how you would do it in say a
Cub that didn't have any.

I fly with a student in a C-170B, that has an ADF and a GPS
only. He
needs to show that he can track a bearing based on electronic
navigation. No VOR, no Problem.

Al G



That's the question though Al. What if that C-170B had neither an
ADF or a GPS.


I used to teach in J-3s and we had to check the students out in a
Cesna 170 or a 150 before sending them off for their check rides so
they could do a little hood time, night time and radio time. they did
them in one of those two airplanes as well.


Bertie

The practical test standards require that you show navigation by
electronic aids.
You would have to use an aircraft that had one, bring one along, or
install it. You could probably rent an aircraft for that part of the
checkride only, but again, you would have to be legal in it.


Mmm, exactly.

Bertie

wrote in message news:7a77578a-6b19-4e75-8650-

I appreciate your criticism and I do realize that I made a lot of
mistakes from the moment I took off. This experience made me more
aware of my responsibilities as a PIC, and I will be a lot more
prepared from now on when I fly.

Thanks for sucking it up and posting here so others can learn from it. I,
as a student CFI, learned something else to teach new pilots.

GPS is one of those things that seems almost to good to be true. It's also
not something that most PPLs seem to get a lot of training on, which,
hopefully, is changing right now.

I did the GPS for IFR and GPS for VFR online AOPA courses and learned a
bunch, but it never tells you not to rely solely on the instrument.

I doubt the FAA will give you much grief.

-c