Class C Airspace Discussion

A couple of months ago, here and elsewhere, there was a discussion
about the nature of the requirement to contact ATC before entering
Class C airspace. The specific issues over which there was disagreement
were (i) whether contact with any ATC facility was sufficient, or
whether contact with the specific TRACON responsible for the airspace
in question was required; and (ii) whether a pilot receiving VFR
advisories from an ARTCC would be in violation of the FARs if he
continued into Class C airspace without having first been handed off to
the TRACON controlling that airspace.

To obtain guidance on these matters, I wrote a letter to the FAA Chief
Counsel seeking an opinion. I today received a reply, and I shall post
a link to this and to the original enquiry in PDF format once I have
scanned the document into a suitable format. The essence of the reply
is that (i) it is necessary to be in contact with the specific TRACON
responsible for the Class C rather than just any old ATC facility; and
(ii) that the receipt of VFR advisories does not absolve a pilot of his
responsibility to contact that TRACON before entering the airspace and
that he would therefore be in violation if he entered without so doing.

As I say, links to PDFs to follow.

Interesting query. At first I wondered how this situation ever arises,
then I remembered my VFR flight into Troutdale (TTD) which is in a
class D airspace that partially underlies and actually seems to invade
the overlying Class C of Portland (PDX). I was on flight following
from the southwest and couldn't find the TTD airport, so PDX approach
was kindly giving me help... "it's about 2 miles at 12 o'clock."
(Don't laugh; they're not always easy to find.) When he told me to
contact TTD tower, I got a rather exasperated reply on my callin that I
should have called them earlier. I meekly replied that I was with PDX
approach until then, and he said "Oh well, that was ok."
So, I guess I technically busted the Class D by not contacting them
while I was still talking to approach (within Class C) but was already
within 5 miles of the Class D airport. Frankly, since I was on radar
with approach control I felt it was safer for everyone to stay with
them until told to contact the local tower at TTD.

No, the approach controller was responsible for either coordinating
your transition through the class D or handing you off. In truth, I
believe there are areas of the class D that approach has agreements to
send arrivals.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

No, the approach controller was responsible for either coordinating
your transition through the class D or handing you off. In truth, I
believe there are areas of the class D that approach has agreements to
send arrivals.


Radar facilities are required to coordinate the transition of thruflights,
but not of VFR arrivals.

"it's about 2 miles at 12 o'clock."
(Don't laugh; they're not always easy to find.) When he told me to
contact TTD tower, I got a rather exasperated reply on my callin that I
should have called them earlier. I meekly replied that I was with PDX
approach until then, and he said "Oh well, that was ok."

The tower at Janesville, WI (JVL) actually made Mary turn around and
leave the airspace, fly three miles out, and call in AGAIN after
Rockford Approach (RFD) dumped her into their Class D airspace. JVL
and RFD certainly weren't on the same team that day.

We now dump Rockford Approach when we're ten miles out from Janesville.

--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

The tower at Janesville, WI (JVL) actually made Mary turn around and
leave the airspace, fly three miles out, and call in AGAIN after
Rockford Approach (RFD) dumped her into their Class D airspace. JVL
and RFD certainly weren't on the same team that day.

We now dump Rockford Approach when we're ten miles out from Janesville.

I have read of pilots experiencing this at Caldwell, New Jersey, a class D
airport here in the busy northeast US. IMO, a crazy and potentially
dangerous way (added frequency congestion, distracted controller, 180
degree turn in busy airspace) to demonstrate a point.


--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote in message
...

I have read of pilots experiencing this at Caldwell, New Jersey, a class D
airport here in the busy northeast US. IMO, a crazy and potentially
dangerous way (added frequency congestion, distracted controller, 180
degree turn in busy airspace) to demonstrate a point.


Crazy and potentially dangerous because of the 180 degree turn or because
you arrived unexpected and unannounced in busy airspace? What else would
you expect the tower controller to do at that point?

Crazy and potentially dangerous because of the 180 degree turn or because
you arrived unexpected and unannounced in busy airspace? What else would
you expect the tower controller to do at that point?

Personally, (as you know) I expected the RFD approach controller to be
on the same sheet of music as the JVL tower controller. They are 25.6
miles apart, and work together hand-in-glove MOST of the time.

Just not that day...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

LOL...

You're name isn't "Kris" is it? You don't fly on online on VATSIM do you?

One of the people I know who flies online couldn't find TTD!

In all seriousness, I fly out of Salem (SLE) and have flown in the Class
C airspace quite a bit. Seattle Center typically will hand you off or
dump you when heading north towards the PDX Charlie airspace. Your only
option is to contact PDX Approach. Yes, PDX Approach is VERY friendly.
I even toured the approach and tower facilities at PDX. It's quite
interesting. Too bad they have the age limits on controlling, since I
could probably change careers for it.

I was on my long cross country as a student pilot and began heading the
wrong direction from TTD. I intended to head towards Mulino (4S9), but
instead was heading about 30-40 degrees east of the heading and was
moving towards Mt Hood (still a ways off). I saw it after a short bit
and as I was making my correction, PDX Approach contacted me to let me
know I was heading the wrong direction, too.

Btw, the Class D does not "invade" the Class C. It just butts up
against the Class C. You are not "busting" any Class D while in the
Class C because you are in contact with the TRACON (e.g. PDX Approach)
and they coordinate handing you off to other facilities while in the
Class C, such as TTD Tower.

PDX, TTD, and HIO all are part of the STARS system at PDX, so all 3
airports have a radar display. Salem, by the way, does not have any
radar display in its tower cab. They are strictly a visual tower.
Apparently, the ZSE radar facility due west of Salem does not cover
Salem that well and Salem is too far south for the PDX (RTX) radar to cover.

Have a great day!

Chris


skym wrote:
Interesting query. At first I wondered how this situation ever arises,
then I remembered my VFR flight into Troutdale (TTD) which is in a
class D airspace that partially underlies and actually seems to invade
the overlying Class C of Portland (PDX). I was on flight following
from the southwest and couldn't find the TTD airport, so PDX approach
was kindly giving me help... "it's about 2 miles at 12 o'clock."
(Don't laugh; they're not always easy to find.) When he told me to
contact TTD tower, I got a rather exasperated reply on my callin that I
should have called them earlier. I meekly replied that I was with PDX
approach until then, and he said "Oh well, that was ok."
So, I guess I technically busted the Class D by not contacting them
while I was still talking to approach (within Class C) but was already
within 5 miles of the Class D airport. Frankly, since I was on radar
with approach control I felt it was safer for everyone to stay with
them until told to contact the local tower at TTD.

Name's not Kris. This was the real thing.