Stalls and Thoughts

On Mar 16, 1:29 pm, Dan wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:24 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

$500/hour??

Sheese... No wonder Comanche prices are so low!

Well, he wants big money for his, but it's pretty nice. His costs are
because he doesn't fly it enough ( he owns five or six airplanes)

Ahhh..well, that's the problem to have!

The 35 prices have come down some... These older airplanes biggest
issue is spare yellow tagged parts. So far the repairs haven't been
beyond the norm (flap motor, etc).

Yeah, the one I flew had flap issues in fact. They wouldnt retract after
landing. You had to go out and thump on the wing to get them up.

The limit adjustment seems to be the weak link in the system.

It's still not a feasible purchase for me as I can't use it to
instruct primary (well, I can -- but who would insure that!?).

Well, exactly. you need to do a good bit of flying to justify one
anyway. I would hardly ever go anywhere n it so a local runabout is all
I want. OTOH a nice Bellanca 19 would be even nicer and has the gear the
right way around..

Bertie

I'm averaging 200-250/year so the cost-benefit seems to be in favor...

I like XC so 90 KIAS is no fun, especially after cruising at 150 KIAS
(A36).

Now I have to convince the Office of Management and Budget.

A Bellanca 19 is wood spar?

Dan Mc

My 3.1416 cents.
Ferrying A/C across the Pacific, I read, the fella's
would experiment with lean ratio's and speed.
The idea was to max the fuel burn efficiency and
minimize the induced wing drag.
Of course that needs to consider the parasitic
drag of the fuselage, tail and so on.

From the standpoint of aerodynamic engineering,
experience is the answer.
Ken

On Mar 16, 5:51 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 16, 1:29 pm, Dan wrote:



On Mar 16, 5:24 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

$500/hour??

Sheese... No wonder Comanche prices are so low!

Well, he wants big money for his, but it's pretty nice. His costs are
because he doesn't fly it enough ( he owns five or six airplanes)

Ahhh..well, that's the problem to have!

The 35 prices have come down some... These older airplanes biggest
issue is spare yellow tagged parts. So far the repairs haven't been
beyond the norm (flap motor, etc).

Yeah, the one I flew had flap issues in fact. They wouldnt retract after
landing. You had to go out and thump on the wing to get them up.

The limit adjustment seems to be the weak link in the system.

It's still not a feasible purchase for me as I can't use it to
instruct primary (well, I can -- but who would insure that!?).

Well, exactly. you need to do a good bit of flying to justify one
anyway. I would hardly ever go anywhere n it so a local runabout is all
I want. OTOH a nice Bellanca 19 would be even nicer and has the gear the
right way around..

Bertie

I'm averaging 200-250/year so the cost-benefit seems to be in favor...

I like XC so 90 KIAS is no fun, especially after cruising at 150 KIAS
(A36).

Now I have to convince the Office of Management and Budget.

A Bellanca 19 is wood spar?

Dan Mc

My 3.1416 cents.
Ferrying A/C across the Pacific, I read, the fella's
would experiment with lean ratio's and speed.
The idea was to max the fuel burn efficiency and
minimize the induced wing drag.
Of course that needs to consider the parasitic
drag of the fuselage, tail and so on.

From the standpoint of aerodynamic engineering,
experience is the answer.
Ken

I'm a bit confused by what the point is...

But a JPI + GAMInjectors makes leaning lean of peak feasible and
productive.

On Mar 16, 5:34 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:26c96963-6eed-4832-bae7-
:





On Mar 16, 5:24 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

$500/hour??

Sheese... No wonder Comanche prices are so low!

Well, he wants big money for his, but it's pretty nice. His costs are
because he doesn't fly it enough ( he owns five or six airplanes)

Ahhh..well, that's the problem to have!

The 35 prices have come down some... These older airplanes biggest
issue is spare yellow tagged parts. So far the repairs haven't been
beyond the norm (flap motor, etc).

Yeah, the one I flew had flap issues in fact. They wouldnt retract
after
landing. You had to go out and thump on the wing to get them up.

The limit adjustment seems to be the weak link in the system.

It's still not a feasible purchase for me as I can't use it to
instruct primary (well, I can -- but who would insure that!?).

Well, exactly. you need to do a good bit of flying to justify one
anyway. I would hardly ever go anywhere n it so a local runabout is
all
I want. OTOH a nice Bellanca 19 would be even nicer and has the gear
the
right way around..

Bertie

I'm averaging 200-250/year so the cost-benefit seems to be in favor...

I like XC so 90 KIAS is no fun, especially after cruising at 150 KIAS
(A36).

Now I have to convince the Office of Management and Budget.

A Bellanca 19 is wood spar?

All woood wing. I don't know much about them but the aforementioned
Commanche owner does. It;s one of the early taildragger Bellancas. The
one with the triple tail. Rag and tube fuselage and all wood wings. You
have to get a good one of course. I know where theres a nice prewar
radial engine one for very little money. It has a falt four in it now,
but I happen to have a radial that will slot right into it. ..

So many toys, so little time .

Bertie

Wood components scare away folks and help keep the prices down
(Bellanca Viking), but the same people will sleep for years under #2
yellow pine and staple trusses.

Oh well.

Nice... radials sure are purdy. And most airplanes of that era were
not afraid to show off the engines -- just like motorcycles.

I'm surprised more LSAs are not going to the tube and fabric way.
Might help get the price down under 100k.



Dan Mc

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
:

On Mar 16, 1:29 pm, Dan wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:24 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

$500/hour??

Sheese... No wonder Comanche prices are so low!

Well, he wants big money for his, but it's pretty nice. His costs
are because he doesn't fly it enough ( he owns five or six
airplanes)

Ahhh..well, that's the problem to have!

The 35 prices have come down some... These older airplanes
biggest issue is spare yellow tagged parts. So far the repairs
haven't been beyond the norm (flap motor, etc).

Yeah, the one I flew had flap issues in fact. They wouldnt retract
after landing. You had to go out and thump on the wing to get them
up.

The limit adjustment seems to be the weak link in the system.

It's still not a feasible purchase for me as I can't use it to
instruct primary (well, I can -- but who would insure that!?).

Well, exactly. you need to do a good bit of flying to justify one
anyway. I would hardly ever go anywhere n it so a local runabout is
all I want. OTOH a nice Bellanca 19 would be even nicer and has the
gear the right way around..

Bertie

I'm averaging 200-250/year so the cost-benefit seems to be in
favor...

I like XC so 90 KIAS is no fun, especially after cruising at 150 KIAS
(A36).

Now I have to convince the Office of Management and Budget.

A Bellanca 19 is wood spar?

Dan Mc

My 3.1416 cents.
Ferrying A/C across the Pacific, I read, the fella's
would experiment with lean ratio's and speed.
The idea was to max the fuel burn efficiency and
minimize the induced wing drag.
Of course that needs to consider the parasitic
drag of the fuselage, tail and so on.

From the standpoint of aerodynamic engineering,
experience is the answer.


You're an idiot, Ken. You're not even smart enough to do your window
washing job.

Bertie

On 2008-03-16, Dan wrote:
I'm surprised more LSAs are not going to the tube and fabric way.
Might help get the price down under 100k.

There are definitely tube & fabric LSAs out there for well under $100K. Even
if one of them would meet my other requirements, though, I still wouldn't be
interested because I want an airplane I can leave outside if the need arises
without worrying about it.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order)

Dan wrote in news:6918a068-5cd9-48a1-8389-9ab6c4c7c208
@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:



Wood components scare away folks and help keep the prices down
(Bellanca Viking), but the same people will sleep for years under #2
yellow pine and staple trusses.

Oh well.

Nice... radials sure are purdy. And most airplanes of that era were
not afraid to show off the engines -- just like motorcycles.

I'm surprised more LSAs are not going to the tube and fabric way.
Might help get the price down under 100k.

Some are and Steel tube is a good way to build an airplane.Very safe
The problem with old wooden wings is twofold. Glues that encouraged various
organisms to grow and moisture getting trapped in the structure. Bellancas
are pretty straightforward from what I understand. At least compared to
some really scary structures like the Cessna Bobcat or a Fairchild PT-19.
Wood spars OTOH, are a good thing pretty much no matter where they are.

Bertie

Jay Maynard wrote in
:

On 2008-03-16, Dan wrote:
I'm surprised more LSAs are not going to the tube and fabric way.
Might help get the price down under 100k.

There are definitely tube & fabric LSAs out there for well under
$100K. Even if one of them would meet my other requirements, though, I
still wouldn't be interested because I want an airplane I can leave
outside if the need arises without worrying about it.

They make airplanes from bricks?

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Bob F." wrote in
:

That's what I heard before. Makes you wonder. Who would have thought
of that? "Oh, buffeting, let' s swap the engines and see if that
works." More likely story is they accidentally installed the engines
wrong and someone said, "Hey, this thing performs better this way".
You can see I have a lot of confidence in American ingenuity.


Should have looked here first

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-38_Lightning


This seems to be a pretty accurate account of the teething problems the
airplane had and the remedies they used. i'm pretty sure the prop rotation
was part of the buffet solution, but this article seems to indicate
otherwise.


bertie

LeVier did a lot of the high mach number dive tests in the 38, and there
definitely was a compressibility problem, mach tuck; the whole works. I
know they added speed brakes but not sure at exactly what stage.
The engine rotation switch was early on in the program according to
Ethell; I believe in the YP38 stage before the first production run.
If I'm not mistaken, the high mach dives came after the switch but I'm
not at all certain of that.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Bob F." wrote in
:

That's what I heard before. Makes you wonder. Who would have
thought of that? "Oh, buffeting, let' s swap the engines and see
if that works." More likely story is they accidentally installed the
engines wrong and someone said, "Hey, this thing performs better
this way". You can see I have a lot of confidence in American
ingenuity.


Should have looked here first

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-38_Lightning


This seems to be a pretty accurate account of the teething problems
the airplane had and the remedies they used. i'm pretty sure the prop
rotation was part of the buffet solution, but this article seems to
indicate otherwise.


bertie

LeVier did a lot of the high mach number dive tests in the 38, and
there definitely was a compressibility problem, mach tuck; the whole
works. I know they added speed brakes but not sure at exactly what
stage. The engine rotation switch was early on in the program
according to Ethell; I believe in the YP38 stage before the first
production run. If I'm not mistaken, the high mach dives came after
the switch but I'm not at all certain of that.

Me neither. I did find one farily hilarious account of the airpanes
early flights in an old period magazine. The story is abou tBen Kelsey
one of the test pilots, and his transcontinental flight. Apparenlty he
cracke the thing up on landing after some sort of harrowing experinece
which left him babbling and he had to be hospitalised, with G-men
gaurding his bed. The aritcle goes on for several pages about how fligt
at high speeds like the lightning achieved, was at the ragged edge of
what even a superhuman could withstand mentally.
Those were the days!


Bertie

On Mar 16, 6:27 pm, Jay Maynard
wrote:
On 2008-03-16, Dan wrote:

I'm surprised more LSAs are not going to the tube and fabric way.
Might help get the price down under 100k.

There are definitely tube & fabric LSAs out there for well under $100K. Even
if one of them would meet my other requirements, though, I still wouldn't be
interested because I want an airplane I can leave outside if the need arises
without worrying about it.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.comhttp://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order)

True, though I think the ideal airplane collection has one to go fast,
one to go slow, and one to haul lots of stuff.

And a hangar for each.


Dan Mc