i think I flew into class c airspace accidentally withoutestablishing communication

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Actually the original assertion was NOT that a VOR is required I listed a
whole bunch of devices that could apply. It was is a quick reply to Bertie
that only VOR was mentioned.

And even my original assertion was in reply to a student pilot that stated
everyone but instrument rated pilots should only be using charts as
primary navigation.


On 1/28/2008 "Gig 601XL Builder" asserted:

"Last time I checked celestial navigation wasn't in the PP requirements and
use of a VOR was."


And that was the quick reply to Bertie that I mentioned


God I love USENET.


That's an odd thing for you to say.



Yes, with guys like you on USENET it is.

WingFlaps wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:19 am, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
WingFlaps wrote:
I was of course talking about pure VFR and am well aware that one may
require IFR skills at times. My concern is that the color GPS screens
are far too seductive and really do stop you keeping a mental
reference on a VFR chart. The trouble is, if you get too out of sync.
with the chart it's damn hard to find yourself -at least for me. Of
course you can always call up ATC and admit you are lost... :-o
That said, provided you can stop and think time and heading from last
known position seems to generally get you in the right "square". As
for PPL test, I've not seen a requirement for using electronic aids
and the test does not involve an actual Xcountry and the Xcountries I
have completed did not use any electronic aids (the VOR was INOP). I
do know how to tune in a VOR and find a radial but never actually used
it -I'm too busy looking out the window (and that's why I fly)...
Cheers
Cheers
SSR without using paart of the traaining requires hood time an...
You better start practicing because the requirement is there. Now I
don't know where you are in your training and will admit that the head
up or down issue is greater for a student or new pilot but there is no
reason for you not to be able to check a moving map with any more
difficulty than checking your altimeter or ASI. IMNSHO Moving Map GPS
have done more for the positive for situational awareness than anything
since windshields.

As far as the checkride not having a real XC flight in it. Let me tell
you how mine went.

Sit and plan a cross country. He said make sure we have a checkpoint
around some little town (don't remember which) that was about 20 miles
away. We took off and flew it like it was a XC using a VOR and after a
while he reached over and covered up the CDI for on the VOR I then tuned
the ADF for the outbound course and followed that a while then he
reached over and covered that up. When we got to the check point he
ended the XC portion of the ride by pulling power and saying, "Oops your
engine just failed."

F. TASK: RADIO COMMUNICATIONS, NAVIGATION
SYSTEMS/FACILITIES, AND RADAR SERVICES
(ASEL and ASES)
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3, FAA-H-8083-15, AC 61-23/FAA-H-8083-25.
Objective. To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to radio communications,
navigation systems/facilities, and radar services available for use
during flight solely by reference to instruments.
2. Selects the proper frequency and identifies the appropriate facility.
3. Follows verbal instructions and/or navigation systems/facilities for
guidance.
4. Determines the minimum safe altitude.
5. Maintains altitude, ±200 feet (60 meters); maintains heading, ±20°;
maintains airspeed, ±10 knots.

Interesting. In our PPL there is no VOR requirement as far as I know.
It could be that there are few stations to tune into anyway... Sounds
like you were lucky to have your waypoint on a direct radial tho. But
did you actually track your position on the chart by visual reference
as you flew? if you did, would I be correct to say the map was (should
have been) your primary tool? I see your heading requirement is easier
than ours -ours is 5 degrees and within 100' and 5 knots. Could that
be because we have to fly DR and maps more often?

Cheers

Cheers

may be -maybe that's because you don't have such streict

Cheers

Cheers

there are few s


What a minute. We've spent all this time discussing FAA regs and they
have been quoted many times during this thread and NOW you tell us you
aren't even operating under them?

Did you have a little seizure there at the end of your message?

Bertie the Bunyip writes:
Actually, the examiner isn't some automaton who sits there checking
boxes. (well there're probably one or two who do)
If he gets into an airplane with a candidate who can't operate the ****
on board and he imagines this guy putting around like a cow on crack,
long fingering the day he might learn to use the equipment installed,
he's going to fail him on general princple.
He won't say that, of course....

I don't know if my interpretation of the legaleese is correct, but
when I did my test my instructor told me "if it is on the panel, the
examiner will expect you to know how to use it, or at a bare minimum
how to disable it."

So he taught me how to use the GPS that was installed in my club's
Tomahawks. My examiner had no issues at all when I hit the "direct to
nearest" buttons on the GPS when he asked me what I would do if I was
to divert to the closest airport.

Chris

Christopher Brian Colohan wrote in
:


Bertie the Bunyip writes:
Actually, the examiner isn't some automaton who sits there checking
boxes. (well there're probably one or two who do)
If he gets into an airplane with a candidate who can't operate the ****
on board and he imagines this guy putting around like a cow on crack,
long fingering the day he might learn to use the equipment installed,
he's going to fail him on general princple.
He won't say that, of course....

I don't know if my interpretation of the legaleese is correct, but
when I did my test my instructor told me "if it is on the panel, the
examiner will expect you to know how to use it, or at a bare minimum
how to disable it."

So he taught me how to use the GPS that was installed in my club's
Tomahawks. My examiner had no issues at all when I hit the "direct to
nearest" buttons on the GPS when he asked me what I would do if I was
to divert to the closest airport.


Well, it's a bit more than that. Unless youre in an airplane you never flew
before ,he will be looking to see you know how to operate it and all it's
junk safely. It's more of a feeling thing. If you make him feel like he'd
let his kids ride with you after the checkride, he'll sign the piece of
paper.
If a candidate can't be bothered to spend the 15 minutes it takes to learn
how to use a VOR, believe me, he'll know.


Bertie

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...

On 1/28/2008 "Gig 601XL Builder" asserted:

"Last time I checked celestial navigation wasn't in the PP requirements
and use of a VOR was."


And that was the quick reply to Bertie that I mentioned


And it was incorrect as you never checked the PP requirenments and found use
of a VOR among them.




God I love USENET.


That's an odd thing for you to say.

Yes, with guys like you on USENET it is.


It's an odd thing for you to say because you appear quite stupid on USENET.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
:


"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...

On 1/28/2008 "Gig 601XL Builder" asserted:

"Last time I checked celestial navigation wasn't in the PP
requirements and use of a VOR was."


And that was the quick reply to Bertie that I mentioned


And it was incorrect as you never checked the PP requirenments and
found use of a VOR among them.




God I love USENET.


That's an odd thing for you to say.

Yes, with guys like you on USENET it is.


It's an odd thing for you to say because you appear quite stupid on
USENET.


Actually, if anyone is prjecting an image of tpying by pounding on his
keyboard with his forehead and fists, it's you.


Bertie