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#11
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"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:y2e4b.232280$cF.75464@rwcrnsc53... ATC has no responsibility for keeping you out of the trees until you reach their MIA. They do if they issue vectors while you're below the minimum altitude. |
#12
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"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message ... The other day I was north of Syracuse and I asked for direct Rochester (instead of flying down to Syracuse and following V2). The controller cleared me "direct when able", and when the GPS showed that I would just barely miss the restricted area (R-5203?), I turned. But evidently that was too close for her, because a few minutes later she turned me 45 degrees off my course for a few minutes before she let me turn back. I wonder if I should have said something to her about seeing the restricted area on my GPS? The book is a bit vague on that. FAA Order 7110.65N Air Traffic Control Chapter 9. Special Flights Section 4. Special Use and ATC Assigned Airspace 9-4-2. SEPARATION MINIMA Unless clearance of nonparticipating aircraft in/through/adjacent to a Prohibited/Restricted/Warning Area/MOA/ATCAA is provided for in a Letter of Agreement (LOA) or Letter of Procedure (LOP), separate nonparticipating aircraft from active special use airspace by the following minima: a. Assign an altitude consistent with para 4-5-2, Flight Direction, and 4-5-3, Exceptions, which is at least 500 feet (above FL 290-1000 feet) above/below the upper/lower limit of the Prohibited/Restricted/Warning Area/MOA/ATCAA. REFERENCE- FAAO 7210.3, Prohibited/Restricted Areas, Para 2-1-16. b. Provide radar separation of 3 miles (En route Stage A/DARC, FL 600 and above - 6 miles) from the special use airspace peripheral boundary. c. Clear aircraft on airways or routes whose widths or protected airspace do not overlap the peripheral boundary. d. Exception. Some Prohibited/Restricted/Warning Areas are established for security reasons or to contain hazardous activities not involving aircraft operations. Where facility management has identified these areas as outlined in FAAO 7210.3, Facility Operation and Administration, vector aircraft to remain clear of the peripheral boundary. NOTE- Nonparticipating aircraft refers to those aircraft for which you have separation responsibility and which have not been authorized by the using agency to operate in/through the special use airspace or ATCAA in question. Clearly, if the controller is vectoring you around SUA then 3 miles is the minimum. If you're on an airway that clears the SUA then you're deemed to be clear of the SUA without regard to how close you actually are to the SUA boundary. But if you're proceeding via your own navigation direct to a fix is just being clear of the SUA boundary good enough? |
#13
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"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:y2e4b.232280$cF.75464@rwcrnsc53... ATC has no responsibility for keeping you out of the trees until you reach their MIA. They do if they issue vectors while you're below the minimum altitude. They won't issue you vectors below their minimum vectoring altitude. To do so would be professional suicide. No Spam |
#14
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"No Spam" wrote in message ... They won't issue you vectors below their minimum vectoring altitude. To do so would be professional suicide. It's done regularly. FAA Order 7110.65N Air Traffic Control Chapter 5. Radar Section 6. Vectoring 5-6-3. VECTORS BELOW MINIMUM ALTITUDE Except in en route automated environments in areas where more than 3 miles separation minima is required, you may vector a departing IFR aircraft, or one executing a missed approach, within 40 miles of the antenna and before it reaches the minimum altitude for IFR operations if separation from prominent obstructions shown on the radar scope is applied in accordance with the following: a. If the flight path is 3 miles or more from the obstruction and the aircraft is climbing to an altitude at least 1,000 feet above the obstruction, vector the aircraft to maintain at least 3 miles separation from the obstruction until the aircraft reports leaving an altitude above the obstruction. b. If the flight path is less than 3 miles from the obstruction, and the aircraft is climbing to an altitude at least 1,000 feet above the obstruction, vector the aircraft to increase lateral separation from the obstruction until the 3 mile minimum is achieved or until the aircraft reports leaving an altitude above the obstruction. c. At those locations where diverse vector areas (DVA) have been established, terminal radar facilities may vector aircraft below the MVA/MIA within those areas and along those routes described in facility directives. REFERENCE- FAAO 7210.3, Establishing Diverse Vector Area/s (DVA), Para 3-9-5. |
#15
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As I found it recently by experience, even if you depart a towered airport
in other than Class E or G airspace. "Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:y2e4b.232280$cF.75464@rwcrnsc53... ATC has no responsibility for keeping you out of the trees until you reach their MIA. Bob Gardner |
#16
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"Bob Gardner" wrote in message et... The FAA did not write the new instrument handbook. I wrote two chapters myself. What the FAA did, however, was to edit the text severely and force it to fit into some of their preconceived notions. I lost some good stuff during the editing process Interesting... could you give some examples? What motivated their fixed preconceptions? -- Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com |
#17
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No Spam wrote: They won't issue you vectors below their minimum vectoring altitude. To do so would be professional suicide. Every vector you get with your takeoff clearance is a vector below the MVA. |
#19
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probably only if you had filed /I or /G . . .then you are telling her
you have an IFR capable GPS = I just did a 1500 mile XC. Filing 172/U I received at least 4 transmissons. Direct to Savana, Columbia St. Augustine. Controller never queried if able. I do have a VFR GPS with me, which helps me. Hank N1441P |
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