Standard rate turn in Boeing 757?

Although John Bell correctly provides the technical calcs to figure the
angle of bank for standard rate turns, the point is the radius [and
ultimately, the rate] of the turn is based on the airspeed, not the size of
the aircraft. If an airplane needs to tighten the turn radius without
increasing the bank angle, it can be done by decreasing speed and/or
descending.

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
As for what they're capable of, remember Tex Johnson(sp?) barrel rolled
the 707 prototype (the "Dash-80").

Actually, an aileron roll, Paul. I know his book, ghost written by
another, says barrel roll, but the tape shows it's an aileron roll.

Among non-fliers, all rolls are "barrel rolls," just as all loops are
"loop-de-loops" and among Southerners, all Northerners are
"Damnyankees."

vince norris

Vince...everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've seen that tape numerous
times and I've done and taught several hundred aileron rolls (23 continuous
ones once in a T-38) and barrel rolls. The 707 prototype that day over Lake
Seattle did not do an aileron roll, it was a barrel roll. He dove, he
climbed and he did a constant "speed" roll about a point which is close to
the definition of a barrel roll as I can get without a book in front of me.
An aileron roll is a roll about the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. He
did not do a 360 roll around the longitudinal axis.

Regards,

JB

"Jim Baker" wrote in message
...
Vince...everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've seen that tape
numerous
times and I've done and taught several hundred aileron rolls (23
continuous
ones once in a T-38) and barrel rolls. The 707 prototype that day over
Lake
Seattle did not do an aileron roll, it was a barrel roll.

All those times you watched the tape, you never figured out it's Lake
Washington?



Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Jim Baker" wrote in message
...
Vince...everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've seen that tape
numerous
times and I've done and taught several hundred aileron rolls (23
continuous
ones once in a T-38) and barrel rolls. The 707 prototype that day over
Lake
Seattle did not do an aileron roll, it was a barrel roll.

All those times you watched the tape, you never figured out it's Lake
Washington?



Pete

Sigh,

JB

Emergency Descent, the flight
manual called for a bank angle of 45 degrees to aid in getting the
nose down and eliminating negative "g"s.

Wow. Don't the passengers screaming get on your nerves?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

"John Bell" wrote
From Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators

n=1/cos(bank angle)

n= load factor in G's

True...for a level turn, but when no attempt is made to maintain
altitude, bank angle and load factor are not related.

Bob Moore
Who also preaches from the "bible" :-)

"Jim Baker" wrote

Vince...everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've seen that tape
numerous times and I've done and taught several hundred aileron rolls
(23 continuous ones once in a T-38) and barrel rolls. The 707
prototype that day over Lake Seattle did not do an aileron roll, it
was a barrel roll. He dove, he climbed and he did a constant "speed"
roll about a point which is close to the definition of a barrel roll
as I can get without a book in front of me. An aileron roll is a roll
about the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. He did not do a 360 roll
around the longitudinal axis.


Vince has it right. You must have missed last year's "barrel-roll
discussion", a portion of which is quoted from William Kershner's
book "The Flight Instructor's Manual". Do a newsgroup Google search
for barrel roll and you will find the entire debate between "Big John"
and myself.

"How-
You might use the following explanation, or develop your own:
(1) Make sure the area is clear, then pick a reference on
the horizon off the wing tip as in the wingover and lazy eight.
(2) Set the throttle to low cruise rpm and ease the nose over to pick-
up about 10 K more than used for the wingover or set up the
airspeed used for a loop, whichever is higher. Power adjustment
should not be necessary during the maneuver. You might have
some of your sharper trainees apply full power as the airplane
approaches inverted and then remind them to throttle back as the
airspeed picks up in the last part of the maneuver.
(3) Smoothly pull the nose up and start a coordinated climbing turn
(note that it will have to be at a much faster rate than was used
for the wingover) toward the reference point. (Assume that at first
the roll will be to the left.)
(4) When the nose is 45° from the original heading, it should be at its
highest pitch attitude and the left bank should be vertical.
(5) When the nose is at 90° from the original heading, you should be
looking directly at the reference point that was originally off the
wing tipfrom a completely inverted position (momentarily).
(6) When the airplane heading is again 45° from the original, the bank
is vertical but you will be in a right bank as far as the ground is
concerned; that is, the right wing is pointing straight down at this
instant of roll. The nose will be at its lowest pitch attitude at
this point.
(7) The roll is continued to wings-level flight as the nose is raised
back to the cruise attitude."

Note that half-way through the maneuver, the nose of the airplane
is 90 degrees to original heading at the same time that the airplane
is inverted.

Bob Moore

Unless they look out the window the passengers won't even notice the
manuver. Done correctly, the G's stay at 1 and the wine does not spill.

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Emergency Descent, the flight
manual called for a bank angle of 45 degrees to aid in getting the
nose down and eliminating negative "g"s.

Wow. Don't the passengers screaming get on your nerves?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 05:48:00 -0400, Cub Driver wrote:

Emergency Descent, the flight
manual called for a bank angle of 45 degrees to aid in getting the
nose down and eliminating negative "g"s.

Wow. Don't the passengers screaming get on your nerves?

the doors are locked. who cares ...? :-)

#m

--
Martin!!! Maaaaartiiiin!!! Can you please flame this guy for me?
'HECTOP' in rec.aviation.piloting

"Cub Driver" wrote in message

Emergency Descent, the flight
manual called for a bank angle of 45 degrees to aid in getting the
nose down and eliminating negative "g"s.

Wow. Don't the passengers screaming get on your nerves?

If you're initiating an emergency descent on a passenger flight, the pax
would likely already be screaming, what with the fog and dangling masks.
Probably wouldn't even notice the roll. :-)