Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 6:53:36 AM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Chip
If you can't get your tophat to work, I recommend just springing for a few bucks and getting a Oudie with SYM already loaded and running.
There not cheap but it works and it works good, never locks up and gets funky in flight.
Connected to a PowerFlarm it is a powerful idiot proof device with great support.
Fly Safe and good luck

I will argue with that. SYM is a huge step back from either XCSoar or TopHat…

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 2:37:33 AM UTC-4, Wyll Surf Air wrote:
Just remember it will the zoom both in and out of circling mode are sticky so they will go back to what you were using the last time it was in that mode. Also you can test this out by replying an igc file at 1 or 2 times speed. If you replay at to fast a speed it won't trip the switch between cruise and climb.

Thanks--this was very helpful! Reducing the replay speed does allow certain automatic switching to occur. However, I still can't tell if I can do what I want. Fortunately this weekend looks very flyable so I'll get a chance to experiment...and will report the results.

Chip Bearden

I will argue with that. SYM is a huge step back from either XCSoar or TopHat…

Based on my and other reported experiences, I think the best system is whatever you are comfortable with and is reliable. I've seen problems reported with a variety of hardware and software. I'm in the IT business and it's amazing to me that this stuff works as well as it does given the low volumes, whether it's commercial products like ClearNav or freeware such as Top Hat/XCSoar.

I've been flying with Top Hat for several years. Rob Dunning has responded multiple times with fixes and responses to requests. I think I know where the remaining bugs are (none of these applications is perfect) and have confidence that it's giving me what I need. Functionally, it does nearly everything I want it to do and I have workarounds for the gaps. I'm just trying to close some of those gaps.

I'm sure SYM and the Oudie are fine but I've played with both and am not tempted to enter another "relationship" now.

Chip Bearden

On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 08:54:40 -0700, chip.bearden wrote:

Based on my and other reported experiences, I think the best system is
whatever you are comfortable with and is reliable. I've seen problems
reported with a variety of hardware and software. I'm in the IT business
and it's amazing to me that this stuff works as well as it does given
the low volumes, whether it's commercial products like ClearNav or
freeware such as Top Hat/XCSoar.

I was also in the IT business, now retired. I think a major reason this
stuff works as well as it does is that the developers are (all?) also
active users of this stuff. That is not knocking professional developers,
just pointing out that they are seldom active users of what they write
and IMO this factor makes a huge difference, especially to usability and
GUI design.

I flew with XCSoar for a few years, but switched to LK8000 whe nit
appeared because I prefer its user interface, which took less effort to
set up the way I want it that XCSoar did, and on a good day with no
weather or airspace issues to force changes of plan I won't touch it from
launch to landing. I've looked at SYM but prefer LK8000.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 12:36:03 PM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 08:54:40 -0700, chip.bearden wrote:

Based on my and other reported experiences, I think the best system is
whatever you are comfortable with and is reliable. I've seen problems
reported with a variety of hardware and software. I'm in the IT business
and it's amazing to me that this stuff works as well as it does given
the low volumes, whether it's commercial products like ClearNav or
freeware such as Top Hat/XCSoar.

I was also in the IT business, now retired. I think a major reason this
stuff works as well as it does is that the developers are (all?) also
active users of this stuff. That is not knocking professional developers,
just pointing out that they are seldom active users of what they write
and IMO this factor makes a huge difference, especially to usability and
GUI design.

I flew with XCSoar for a few years, but switched to LK8000 whe nit
appeared because I prefer its user interface, which took less effort to
set up the way I want it that XCSoar did, and on a good day with no
weather or airspace issues to force changes of plan I won't touch it from
launch to landing. I've looked at SYM but prefer LK8000.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

I can't agree with you enough on this point you make about software developers who actually use their product in real everyday life! This applies not only to soaring, but in almost every aspect of software development, especially when it comes to electronic medical record systems. (sorry, don't mean to derail the thread here, but this is a pet peeve of mine).

Just to close the loop on this Top Hat question, it does not appear that I can do what I want to do. I flew both days this past weekend and tried different configurations. Top Hat will autoswitch from cruise screen to circling screen and back again. It will autozoom when circling so the pilot can see the zoomed-in overhead view of the track within a thermal. And it will allow one-click switching from zoomed-in thermaling view (including whatever infoboxes are configured for the circling screen) to zoomed-out cruise view (with the cruising infoboxes).

But it will not automatically switch from cruise screen (zoomed out) to circling screen (autozoomed in) and allow one-click switching back to the cruise view to get a quick pick at nearby landing sites, other gliders (with FLARM input), and surrounding terrain and airspace.

I compromised on one-click manual switching from cruise to climb. It's better for me than the autozoom into thermaling view because I can switch to zoomed out view with only one click on the Screens button. But the manual switching each time I want the circling view is annoying because all the logic is there to autoswitch and zoom; I just can't control them to get the effect I want.

Thanks for the input! I'm not sure there's a lot of development work being done on Top Hat at the moment but I'll submit this as a request.

Chip Bearden

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 1:22:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Just to close the loop on this Top Hat question, it does not appear that I can do what I want to do. I flew both days this past weekend and tried different configurations. Top Hat will autoswitch from cruise screen to circling screen and back again. It will autozoom when circling so the pilot can see the zoomed-in overhead view of the track within a thermal. And it will allow one-click switching from zoomed-in thermaling view (including whatever infoboxes are configured for the circling screen) to zoomed-out cruise view (with the cruising infoboxes).

But it will not automatically switch from cruise screen (zoomed out) to circling screen (autozoomed in) and allow one-click switching back to the cruise view to get a quick pick at nearby landing sites, other gliders (with FLARM input), and surrounding terrain and airspace.

I compromised on one-click manual switching from cruise to climb. It's better for me than the autozoom into thermaling view because I can switch to zoomed out view with only one click on the Screens button. But the manual switching each time I want the circling view is annoying because all the logic is there to autoswitch and zoom; I just can't control them to get the effect I want.

Thanks for the input! I'm not sure there's a lot of development work being done on Top Hat at the moment but I'll submit this as a request.

Chip Bearden

Thanks Chip. I second your request. Specifically: after I manually switch from (auto-entered) circling screen to cruise screen I want to be able to manually go back to the circling screen. Robert Dunning has made other changes to Tophat by request before, hopefully he'll do it again. And Thank You Robert for this nice software!

Thanks Chip. I second your request. Specifically: after I manually switch from (auto-entered) circling screen to cruise screen I want to be able to manually go back to the circling screen. Robert Dunning has made other changes to Tophat by request before, hopefully he'll do it again. And Thank You Robert for this nice software!

I agree, Rob Dunning has been great, helping push through a number of changes I asked about in the two years since I started using Top Hat. I wasn't sure this latest one required a software change; I thought I might just not have configured it properly, that everyone else was already flying around with this feature.

But it appears not (please show me I'm wrong!!!). From my perspective, the change isn't significant: i.e., just autoswitch between cruise and climb--as occurs now--while retaining the user's most recent zoom levels for each screen--which doesn't appear to occur now (the same zoom level is used for both screens). I had thought the Distinct Zoom feature--which presumably changed zoom to a screen-level rather than a global parameter--took care of this but that appears to be true only for manually switched screens, not autoswitching.

Chip Bearden

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 6:05:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thanks Chip. I second your request. Specifically: after I manually switch from (auto-entered) circling screen to cruise screen I want to be able to manually go back to the circling screen. Robert Dunning has made other changes to Tophat by request before, hopefully he'll do it again. And Thank You Robert for this nice software!

I agree, Rob Dunning has been great, helping push through a number of changes I asked about in the two years since I started using Top Hat. I wasn't sure this latest one required a software change; I thought I might just not have configured it properly, that everyone else was already flying around with this feature.

But it appears not (please show me I'm wrong!!!). From my perspective, the change isn't significant: i.e., just autoswitch between cruise and climb--as occurs now--while retaining the user's most recent zoom levels for each screen--which doesn't appear to occur now (the same zoom level is used for both screens). I had thought the Distinct Zoom feature--which presumably changed zoom to a screen-level rather than a global parameter--took care of this but that appears to be true only for manually switched screens, not autoswitching.

Chip Bearden

And, I should add, in addition to autoswitching, allow manual switching from climb to cruise or vice versa at any time, while retaining the same pre-existing zoom levels for each screen.

Chip Bearden

Yes I agree. I with your request Chip. I have a second question. Is there a way to fix the screen on cruise? If there is I cant find it. The only choice I can find is setting "auto zoom" to "manual" which I assume still automatically switches to circling.