Night flying in the mountians in a cessna 150,

"Howard Nelson" wrote

I have flown numerous times single engine, day, over both rockies and
sierras. I don't know what the actual realities are but the sierras are
much
more "scary". They rise faster, fewer valleys and more bare rock. I have
always felt that I have had an "out" when flying over the rockies not so
the
sierras.

Howard

Although I have not flown above the Andes, except very high in an airliner,
driving through them gives me the following point of view. If you think the
Sierras are scary, check out the Andes. They are young, raw, and jagged.
--
Jim in NC

Single engine
Night
Mountains

I don't think single-engine is much risk compared to the other two.

As a non-professional pilot, my my rule-of-thumb is that won't do any two of
the following three:

Night
Mountains
IFR weather (basically in significant flying in clouds)

All three is a huge risk

- Mark

As a previous poster pointed out, it really all boils down to what
level of risk you are willing to accept, as well as your comfort level
and level of experience.

I live and fly in northwestern New Mexico, and frequently fly XC across
northern Arizona and up into Colorado with my family. If I subscribed
to the rule of never flying and night in the mountains, I'd never be able
to fly at night. (Mind you, I fly a PA32-300, not a Cessna 150,
but it's still a normally aspirated single-engine).

However, even as an instrument rated pilot, I will not fly at night in the
mountains in IMC. The MEA's are just too darn high around here (16,000+),
and there isn't an "out" should something go awry.

Set personal limits and minima, and stick to them.

-- Dane

In article ,
markjenn wrote:
As a non-professional pilot, my my rule-of-thumb is that won't do any two of
the following three:

Night
Mountains
IFR weather (basically in significant flying in clouds)

All three is a huge risk

- Mark

I experienced an engine failure in a single over the Sierras at night
(the sunset was beautiful). It was in a Commanche, and the engined died
about 3 seconds after turning off the electric boost pump (10,500'
after leaving Tahoe.) Happily, the engine recovered as soon as the
boost pump was turned back on. Also, happily, the owner of the
Commanchee was in the right seat and is a pretty calm guy. He turned
the pump off again (to see what the fuel pressure would do.) Sure
enough, the pressure dropped, the engine faltered and the nose dropped.
He flipped the pump back on, and I suggested leaving well enough alone
(I'm not that calm.)

I had the suspicion that, even if the electric pump failed the
mechanical one would get started somehow, as we had just flown an hour
to Tahoe with no trouble, but I didn't want to test that theory. The
next day, the engine ran fine on the mechanical pump, and it has ever
since.

Well, enough hanger flying - I gotta go.

In rec.aviation.owning bk wrote:
: I experienced an engine failure in a single over the Sierras at night
: (the sunset was beautiful). It was in a Commanche, and the engined died
: about 3 seconds after turning off the electric boost pump (10,500'
: after leaving Tahoe.) Happily, the engine recovered as soon as the
: boost pump was turned back on. Also, happily, the owner of the
: Commanchee was in the right seat and is a pretty calm guy. He turned
: the pump off again (to see what the fuel pressure would do.) Sure
: enough, the pressure dropped, the engine faltered and the nose dropped.
: He flipped the pump back on, and I suggested leaving well enough alone
: (I'm not that calm.)

That's allegedly a common problem with PA-24's. The mechanical and
electrical(s) are in parallel. When the electric is on for awhile, no fuel goes
through the mechanical pump and it gets no cooling. When the electric is turned off,
the mechanical pump is vapor locked and can't pump. It can ruin your day if you do it
just after takeoff and don't think fast.

That's just what I've heard.

-Cory

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Actually, this is a well known phenomenon for 250 hp Comanches with
carburetors, and is one reason that the International Comanche Society
strongly suggests that anyone new to flying Comanches get a check out
from a CFI who really knows Comanches.

The pertinent parts of a proper checkout start with the engine start
procedu (1) Before start, electric fuel pump ON and listen to the
sound of the two electric fuel pumps. They should sound like a Latin
rhythm as the two pumps go into and out of phase. If the sound is a
regular beat, one of the pumps is not working. Naturally, you can only
hear the pumps when the engine is not running. (2) Then electric fuel
pump OFF for start, taxi, and runup. This tests the engine driven fuel
pump. (3) Electric fuel pump on just before power up for takeoff. (4)
Electric fuel pump OFF when a safe altitude is reached. Watch the
fuel pressure. If it falls below minimum, electric fuel pump back ON
for ten seconds, then OFF again. Repeat ON and OFF until fuel pressure
does not fall below minimum.

What the procedure does is push a little fuel into the engine driven
fuel pump with each on cycle, eventually breaking the vapor lock. I
have never needed more than three on's. There is no reason to scare the
passengers with a dead engine. The carb bowl has enough fuel in it to
give plenty of time to get the electric pump back on if you watch the
fuel pressure.

Keeping the electric fuel pump off until the last minute before
departure generally alleviates the problem entirely.

Hank
Henry A. Spellman
Comanche N5903P

wrote:
In rec.aviation.owning bk wrote:
: I experienced an engine failure in a single over the Sierras at night
: (the sunset was beautiful). It was in a Commanche, and the engined died
: about 3 seconds after turning off the electric boost pump (10,500'
: after leaving Tahoe.) Happily, the engine recovered as soon as the
: boost pump was turned back on. Also, happily, the owner of the
: Commanchee was in the right seat and is a pretty calm guy. He turned
: the pump off again (to see what the fuel pressure would do.) Sure
: enough, the pressure dropped, the engine faltered and the nose dropped.
: He flipped the pump back on, and I suggested leaving well enough alone
: (I'm not that calm.)

That's allegedly a common problem with PA-24's. The mechanical and
electrical(s) are in parallel. When the electric is on for awhile, no fuel goes
through the mechanical pump and it gets no cooling. When the electric is turned off,
the mechanical pump is vapor locked and can't pump. It can ruin your day if you do it
just after takeoff and don't think fast.

That's just what I've heard.

-Cory

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

nw...enjoy reading your stuff. keep 'em coming. as an owner wannabe
(does holding-up convenience stores really make you a bad person??) i
keep winding up at the conclusion that a 150/2 probably makes the most
sense for me. for now. maybe. maybe that 160hp aerobat taildragger in
trade a plane?? no, there goes the budget again.

the use you are getting out of your 150 is sure encouraging. now, i
expect this is a pretty stupid question but what the heck " do you have
any kind of gps plan if the one and only motor does quit while above
the mountain in the dark? known gps glide-to spots"??

dan

"houstondan" wrote in message
oups.com...
nw...enjoy reading your stuff. keep 'em coming. as an owner wannabe
(does holding-up convenience stores really make you a bad person??) i
keep winding up at the conclusion that a 150/2 probably makes the most
sense for me. for now. maybe. maybe that 160hp aerobat taildragger in
trade a plane?? no, there goes the budget again.

the use you are getting out of your 150 is sure encouraging. now, i
expect this is a pretty stupid question but what the heck " do you have
any kind of gps plan if the one and only motor does quit while above
the mountain in the dark? known gps glide-to spots"??

dan


If the engine quits in the areas I was flying in I probably would never be
found no matter ware I landed and would take weeks to walk out how wooded it
is. This 150 is the best investment I have purchassed its almost paid for
its self in flight time. And the education you get when you become an owner
is worth the money spent.

Nw,

If the engine quits in the areas I was flying in I probably would never be
found no matter ware I landed and would take weeks to walk out how wooded it
is.


Uh, a simple, modern ELT would solve that quite nicely. See www.equipped.org

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"houstondan" wrote in message
oups.com...
nw...enjoy reading your stuff. keep 'em coming. as an owner wannabe
(does holding-up convenience stores really make you a bad person??) i
keep winding up at the conclusion that a 150/2 probably makes the most
sense for me. for now. maybe. maybe that 160hp aerobat taildragger in
trade a plane?? no, there goes the budget again.

the use you are getting out of your 150 is sure encouraging. now, i
expect this is a pretty stupid question but what the heck " do you have
any kind of gps plan if the one and only motor does quit while above
the mountain in the dark? known gps glide-to spots"??

dan


I hate to admit it, but I may have to retract my earlier comment about not
flying over the mountains at night.
Like I said, I fly over the Sierras all the time.
From the time I hit Tahoe, until I get to Placerville, there is literally
NOWHERE to safely put it down.
In fact, I don't think I could even walk away from the plane if I had to put
it down.

With that in mind, what difference would it make if it was light or dark
outside the plane?
I'd be dead either way, right?

I don't know if I'll be doing it anytime soon, but it's definitely food for
thought.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III