Landing with broken rudder cable

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 9:12:35 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 2:46:56 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Please check it and correct me if I'm wrong.

Usually the only springs in the rudder lines are those in front of pedals. Those springs keep the whole rudder line in tension.

What happen if let's say the right rudder cable breaks: right pedal goes full forward and the same do the left pedal. The glider start circling left. Possible correction: pull the pedals rack all the way back and put the left foot heel over the left pedal and pull back.

What happen if the right pedal spring breaks: right pedal goes back and left pedal goes full forward. The glider start circling left. Possible correction: pull the pedals rack all the way back and push hard the right pedal.

Depending on the glider, there may be additional options:

If the rudder cables are exposed in the cockpit, one may be able to grab a cable by hand and neutralize or reduce the rudder deflection. In the first example above, pull the left cable rearward, or push the right cable forward. It helps if you have a third hand.

If it's a two-seater, the broken cable may be between front and rear cockpits, so person in rear seat may still have rudder control (similar to broken spring situation above).

Seems that most of these failures are at the S-tube of the - front seat if there are two seats - rudder pedals. If there are two seats, the second pilot can fly while the pilot who lost the rudder due to the cable break can adjust the pedals back and relieve the spring tension with a foot behind the connected pedal.
In the Duo there is a maintenance manual section about routinely inspecting the cables at the S-tubes, so perhaps this is a known issue in the Janus fuselage.
I saw the JS1 fuselage that had this problem in Texas, when Tony delivered it to Williams. Surprisingly little damage with no pilot, but with low wing loading and an aft C/G, different to normal.
Jim

Nice job!

...But that's why I carry insurance on my glider and always wear a
parachute.Â* My biggest fear in the Stemme (and it's not really that big)
is fire, and I've already established my minimum bail out altitude for
that case.Â* Below that altitude, I'll simply stuff it on the ground, get
out (if I can), and run.

On 8/29/2019 10:36 PM, wrote:
Long time ago I landed glider with broken rudder. Rudder cable broke during stopping spin rotation in aerobatic flight on 3000 feet, decided not to bail out to see if flying and landing is possible and to save the glider. Flying with "hardover rudder" (full deflection) was interesting experience. Broken rudder cable will cause a severe yaw and roll with the resulting sideslip. Glider keeps turning, spiraling or circling in one direction (of unbroken cable) weather you like it or not it wants to spin or spiral all the time. You need much higher speed about 140 km/h or more, or whatever it takes to control it to stop turning and to go into steep sideslip to fly straight with 30-50 degree of bank. Forget your legs, you don’t need rudder pedals any more. High speed and ailerons are your only friends. Keep your speed high because glider wants to spiral and stall at slower speeds. I landed that "sucker" perfectly by flying high speed in deep "grave" sideslip all the way to the ground to middle of airport leveling wings moment before touchdown with full air brakes. I'm probably one of very few pilots that pulled this off with success, and I was 22 at that time, had 130 flying hours in 220 flights.
I remember that in situation like this you think very fast, you even have time to think that a few months earlier there was the same type of accident in other part of the country and pilot bailed out and glider went through the roof of the house. Also tighten your belts and keep your feet off rudder pedals, just in case. Keep your speed high, wings level, expect severe yaw, circles become wider, it takes time before you can fly straight with one wing low. If you slow down glider will start turning again so keep your speed up to go straight. This flight was 9 minutes including 6 minutes tow to 3300 feet when several other “normal� aerobatic flights were 16 minutes.
Andre

--
Dan, 5J

A Stemme caught fire crashed and burnt killing both occupants here in Aus some years ago, given the small number going around, the percentages don’t look to good to me.

That's why I've already made my bail out decision in the event of a
fire.Â* A friend in the Dominican Republic died because he didn't wear a
parachute and he couldn't get it back to the airport in time.Â* Below
700' AGL, I will put it on the ground with minimal maneuvering.Â* Above
700' AGL, continue to climb while jettisoning the canopy and getting
out.Â* I wear a very quick opening square parachute.

We just completed annual on my Stemme and there were things which should
have been caught on previous inspections, but were not. Every thing has
been corrected.

On 8/30/2019 5:56 PM, Charlie Quebec wrote:
A Stemme caught fire crashed and burnt killing both occupants here in Aus some years ago, given the small number going around, the percentages don’t look to good to me.

--
Dan, 5J

As an instructor, I practice this scenario in a Grob 103. Choose a direction and nail the rudder to the floor. We practice holding a heading and use of spoilers. Pretty much everyone agrees you could probably crash land and with good timing and luck everything will get to the ground unharmed. Maintaining airspeed prevents hint of a stall spin.

I also practice no ailerons or elevator using only the rudders and trim. Most are surprised how much control you have.

I highly recommend practicing with your own glider starting from a safe altitude. It will mentally prepare you for options that you might not want to explore for the first time in a real situation.

Other hands off things to practice is going into a cloud, letting go of the controls and see what your glider does. most will oscillate on pitch and quite a few will enter a spiral dive.

Bailing out you save yourself, while putting the rest of the world at risk. Plenty of stories of pilots landing in urban areas that have had these thoughts and did the right thing saving countless lives and property on the ground. Better to crash land in a field, than to have your plane fall to the ground while you float down in your chute.

BG



On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 9:36:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Long time ago I landed glider with broken rudder. Rudder cable broke during stopping spin rotation in aerobatic flight on 3000 feet, decided not to bail out to see if flying and landing is possible and to save the glider. Flying with "hardover rudder" (full deflection) was interesting experience. Broken rudder cable will cause a severe yaw and roll with the resulting sideslip. Glider keeps turning, spiraling or circling in one direction (of unbroken cable) weather you like it or not it wants to spin or spiral all the time. You need much higher speed about 140 km/h or more, or whatever it takes to control it to stop turning and to go into steep sideslip to fly straight with 30-50 degree of bank. Forget your legs, you don’t need rudder pedals any more. High speed and ailerons are your only friends. Keep your speed high because glider wants to spiral and stall at slower speeds. I landed that "sucker" perfectly by flying high speed in deep "grave" sideslip all the way to the ground to middle of airport leveling wings moment before touchdown with full air brakes. I'm probably one of very few pilots that pulled this off with success, and I was 22 at that time, had 130 flying hours in 220 flights.
I remember that in situation like this you think very fast, you even have time to think that a few months earlier there was the same type of accident in other part of the country and pilot bailed out and glider went through the roof of the house. Also tighten your belts and keep your feet off rudder pedals, just in case. Keep your speed high, wings level, expect severe yaw, circles become wider, it takes time before you can fly straight with one wing low. If you slow down glider will start turning again so keep your speed up to go straight. This flight was 9 minutes including 6 minutes tow to 3300 feet when several other “normal� aerobatic flights were 16 minutes.
Andre

On 8/30/2019 9:17 AM, BG wrote:
As an instructor, I practice this scenario in a Grob 103. Choose a
direction and nail the rudder to the floor. We practice holding a heading
and use of spoilers. Pretty much everyone agrees you could probably crash
land and with good timing and luck everything will get to the ground
unharmed. Maintaining airspeed prevents hint of a stall spin.

I also practice no ailerons or elevator using only the rudders and trim.
Most are surprised how much control you have.

I highly recommend practicing with your own glider starting from a safe
altitude. It will mentally prepare you for options that you might not want
to explore for the first time in a real situation.

Other hands off things to practice is going into a cloud, letting go of the
controls and see what your glider does. most will oscillate on pitch and
quite a few will enter a spiral dive.

Bailing out you save yourself, while putting the rest of the world at risk.
Plenty of stories of pilots landing in urban areas that have had these
thoughts and did the right thing saving countless lives and property on the
ground. Better to crash land in a field, than to have your plane fall to
the ground while you float down in your chute.

BG



On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 9:36:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Long time ago I landed glider with broken rudder...

Snip...

"What Buzz wrote." (And, for the record, I don't know the man.)

A little prep - mental and otherwise - can go a long way toward maximizing
potential for a good outcome in the face of a bad situation, regardless of the
*reason* for the bad situation. Kinda like the (apocryphal?) Navy pilot who
allegedly responded to the clueless-reporter-type gushing about the
"instantaneous decision" to eject in the "unexpected case" of a low-energy cat
shot. "That decision was made a long time ago." Certain scenarios are simply
unsalvageable. Others...not the case.

Is there a soaring pilot alive who hasn't had mental time on hand while doing
some flag-pole-sitting prior to landing and toyed with the concept of "boredom?"

YMMV.
Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 08:17:47 -0700, BG wrote:

As an instructor, I practice this scenario in a Grob 103. Choose a
direction and nail the rudder to the floor. We practice holding a
heading and use of spoilers. Pretty much everyone agrees you could
probably crash land and with good timing and luck everything will get to
the ground unharmed. Maintaining airspeed prevents hint of a stall
spin.

Good advice. I regularly slip my 201 Libelle quite hard - full or near-
full rudder deflection - so I'm up to speed with its handling in a hard
slip, both with and without spoiler deployment.

However as I usually slip it in a straight line when the brakes don't
shed height fast enough, steering it with the ailerons in a full-rudder
slip sounds like a useful thing to know.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Be my guest.Â* If I feel the need, I'm jumping.

On 8/30/2019 9:17 AM, BG wrote:
Better to crash land in a field, than to have your plane fall to the ground while you float down in your chute.

--
Dan, 5J

On Friday, 30 August 2019 18:17:49 UTC+3, BG wrote:

Other hands off things to practice is going into a cloud, letting go of the controls and see what your glider does. most will oscillate on pitch and quite a few will enter a spiral dive.

Please tell me you are kidding, right?

I don't think he is suggesting actually going into a cloud......more like, know what your ship if you flew hands off in benign spiral mode which could be used if you were sucked up in a cloud or were trapped on top while wave flying.