Best option for electric self starting glider

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:04:43 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month.
I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs.

I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers.

Are the Diana 2 FES and Lak 17B FES officially "self starters" - i.e. self-launchers as are the GP 15 and the Mini-LAK? Please correct me if I am wrong but I wasn't aware that they are other than self-sustainers, although I believe self-launching is unofficially possible in the right wind/runway/weight conditions.

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:31:13 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:04:43 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month.
I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs.

I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers.

Are the Diana 2 FES and Lak 17B FES officially "self starters" - i.e. self-launchers as are the GP 15 and the Mini-LAK? Please correct me if I am wrong but I wasn't aware that they are other than self-sustainers, although I believe self-launching is unofficially possible in the right wind/runway/weight conditions.

LAK 17B FES is a sustainer but the new 17C FES is claimed as a self-starter (as miniLAK) with higher landing gear for propeller clearance, stronger FES, different aerodynamicall configuration of wings and fuselage according to LAK. For the Diana 2 FES I don't know.

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:41:36 PM UTC+1, Magnus wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:31:13 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:04:43 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month.
I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs.

I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers.

Are the Diana 2 FES and Lak 17B FES officially "self starters" - i.e. self-launchers as are the GP 15 and the Mini-LAK? Please correct me if I am wrong but I wasn't aware that they are other than self-sustainers, although I believe self-launching is unofficially possible in the right wind/runway/weight conditions.

LAK 17B FES is a sustainer but the new 17C FES is claimed as a self-starter (as miniLAK) with higher landing gear for propeller clearance, stronger FES, different aerodynamicall configuration of wings and fuselage according to LAK. For the Diana 2 FES I don't know.

Thank you for enlightening me Magnus. I didn't see that one on the LAK website.

If you register the Diana 2 as an ultralight, you can self launch. There's Diana 2's delivered and flying in France in this configuration.
If you register it as EASA CS-22, you cannot (legally). I'm told it's easier for them to get the initial TC through as a sustainer.

For self-launch under CS-22 you need 23cm of propeller clearance with the main wheel fully deflated. I believe both the Mini-LAK and the Silent 2 operate outside of CS-22 as microlights or otherwise if you want to use them for self launching.

It sounds like LAK is trying to get the 17C through on CS-22 for self launch with a modified landing gear to get that required clearance. I hope they'll be successful and others will follow.

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:41:36 PM UTC+1, Magnus wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:31:13 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:04:43 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month.
I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs.

I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers.

Are the Diana 2 FES and Lak 17B FES officially "self starters" - i.e. self-launchers as are the GP 15 and the Mini-LAK? Please correct me if I am wrong but I wasn't aware that they are other than self-sustainers, although I believe self-launching is unofficially possible in the right wind/runway/weight conditions.

LAK 17B FES is a sustainer but the new 17C FES is claimed as a self-starter (as miniLAK) with higher landing gear for propeller clearance, stronger FES, different aerodynamicall configuration of wings and fuselage according to LAK. For the Diana 2 FES I don't know.

Minilak is cs22 glider, not ultralight.

I'm hoping that someone creates an electric self-launch glider with complete propulsion redundancy: two 20kW motors, two propellors, two batterey packs, two speed controls. Any single failure would leave you with at least sustainer performance.

A traditional motorglider must be flown like an unpowered sailplane; you must keep safe landing options within glide. With sufficient redundancy, it would not be unreasonable to enjoy soaring in some entirely new and inhospitable places.

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 5:41:58 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I'm hoping that someone creates an electric self-launch glider with complete propulsion redundancy: two 20kW motors, two propellors, two batterey packs, two speed controls. Any single failure would leave you with at least sustainer performance.

A traditional motorglider must be flown like an unpowered sailplane; you must keep safe landing options within glide. With sufficient redundancy, it would not be unreasonable to enjoy soaring in some entirely new and inhospitable places.

To quote Dave Nadler, "How hard could it be?"

El miércoles, 8 de abril de 2020, 21:33:17 (UTC-3), escribió:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 5:41:58 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I'm hoping that someone creates an electric self-launch glider with complete propulsion redundancy: two 20kW motors, two propellors, two batterey packs, two speed controls. Any single failure would leave you with at least sustainer performance.

A traditional motorglider must be flown like an unpowered sailplane; you must keep safe landing options within glide. With sufficient redundancy, it would not be unreasonable to enjoy soaring in some entirely new and inhospitable places.

To quote Dave Nadler, "How hard could it be?"


Easiness = Sqroot(Money^3 * time^2)/(distance to manufacturers)

To quote Dave Nadler, "How hard could it be?"

Love the quote. Actually, this would be right up my alley. I've developed a few aircraft from scratch and people pay me a lot of money to modify special mission airplanes. A multi-motor self-launcher would be pretty easy to do as a modification to an existing self-launcher; probably a 3 month project. Perhaps I'll get around to this eventually, but first I have some more pressing items on my wish list!

On 4/9/20 12:05 AM, wrote:

To quote Dave Nadler, "How hard could it be?"

Love the quote. Actually, this would be right up my alley. I've developed a few aircraft from scratch and people pay me a lot of money to modify special mission airplanes. A multi-motor self-launcher would be pretty easy to do as a modification to an existing self-launcher; probably a 3 month project. Perhaps I'll get around to this eventually, but first I have some more pressing items on my wish list!


Wow. The GP folks are about four years late in delivering product and
you can do all this in three months!! Go for it!!!

Actually the Alice electric plane has much of the redundancy that you're
asking for. Three motors with dual inverters on each of them, a highly
segmented battery configuration that can be reconfigured almost
infinitely. At least on paper it has those things, they burned up their
prototype before getting to taxi tests.