Touch and Goes versus Full Stop Taxi Backs

What do you do to the gear after landing in a Bonanza?
After doing T&G's during my PPL training in an Archer, I never do them
now in a Bonanza, only S&G if runway lenght and traffic allow. In fact,
I don't touch the configuration until STOPPED, either on the runway or
clear of the runway, then raise flaps (identify FLAP handle, not GEAR
handle), reset trim, open cowl flaps, etc.

buttman wrote:
If I'm in a bonanza, I'll do full stop, as there are a lot of things
you have to do (gear, etc), plus the hobbs only runs when weight is not
on the gear. So taxi time is free, so why not? You get to log that
time.

If I'm in a Charokee, I'll do mainly T&G unless traffic or runway
legnth becomes a factor. In a simple airplane, all you need to do is
pretty much retract flaps.

buttman wrote:

If I'm in a bonanza, I'll do full stop, as there are a lot of things
you have to do (gear, etc),

??? Putting the gear back down after skidding to a stop?


plus the hobbs only runs when weight is not
on the gear. So taxi time is free, so why not? You get to log that
time.

If I'm in a Charokee, I'll do mainly T&G unless traffic or runway
legnth becomes a factor. In a simple airplane, all you need to do is
pretty much retract flaps.

In a Bonanza you can take off with full flaps if you want.

Even my docile 172 needed such a major trim shift during the
flap-retraction-carb heat-off-throttle-up-and-go part that I quit doing
T & Gs some years back.

Bruce Riggs wrote:

What do you do to the gear after landing in a Bonanza?
After doing T&G's during my PPL training in an Archer, I never do them
now in a Bonanza, only S&G if runway lenght and traffic allow. In fact,
I don't touch the configuration until STOPPED, either on the runway or
clear of the runway, then raise flaps (identify FLAP handle, not GEAR
handle), reset trim, open cowl flaps, etc.

The Bonanza's got a bad rap with their gear and flap handles. Now that
I've got some time in my Bo I like the gear handle on the left side.
That way rolling down the runway everything that needs adjustment is to
the left of the throw over yoke. Wing flaps, cowl flaps and trim are
all right next to each other, you never get anywhere near the gear.
Stay to the left of the yoke and you are OK.

"Kevin Dunlevy" wrote in message
...
[...]
Should I force myself to always do full stop taxi backs, even thought
other
pilots and tower personnel seem to prefer that I do touch and goes?

IMHO, it depends on what you want to practice.

I am of the opinion that early in primary training, touch & go's are
counter-productive. Much better to stop, get off the runway, and have the
instructor debrief the circuit. As others have pointed out, touch & go's
don't allow you to practice the full start to finish of a takeoff, circuit,
and landing.

On the other hand, eventually one is actually pretty decent at landing, and
may want to practice variations on the theme. No-flap approaches, short
approaches, etc. In this situation, the interesting part is the stuff that
happens while you're in the air, and touch & go's allow you to maximize the
time spend in the air.

I also find touch & go's useful for brushing some of the rust off, as the
skill that fades earliest for me is the smooth and precise use of the flight
controls; a full-stop landing won't really help me much in that regard, but
getting a high ratio of air-to-ground time in does. Touch & go's are just
one part of a whole slew of exercises one can do to remind oneself how to
control the airplane.

As in nearly everything, there's a time and place for everything. Touch &
go's aren't inherently bad, but there certainly are situations in which they
aren't useful, or may actually reduce the usefulness of the training. Just
keep in mind what your goal is, and how best to achieve it, and that will
guide you with respect to when a touch & go is useful or not.

Pete

IMO, if you are already a confident certificated pilot and flying a
nosewheel plane, T&Gs provide more "multitasking" and therefore more fun
and skill building. If you are flying a tailwheel, there is more value
to full stop, especially in X-wind, as well as T&G.

Kevin Dunlevy wrote:


Should I force myself to always do full stop taxi backs, even thought other
pilots and tower personnel seem to prefer that I do touch and goes? Kevin
Dunlevy

Full stop/taxi backs or Stop and gos keep a pilots, and especially student
pilots, attention on what is happening, forcing them to finish the landing,
completing their checklists, and following procedures. Touch and gos can
prematurely lead the pilot into the takeoff phase when the landing phase
hasn't been completed. This gets increasingly important as the pilot
transitions to heavier, faster, and more complex airplanes. Mistakes can
happen when pilots are rushed. Pilots can mistakenly grab the wrong handle
i.e. flap or gear, forget to remove carb heat, ect. Stopping and taxiing
back gives you time to re-configure not only the airplane, but the pilot.
You can think over what the wind is doing, how your last landing was, and
how to improve your next one. And it also forces you to go through the
checklists and get the procedure of following procedures well ingrained in
your head. There will come a day when you'll want to fly something that is
not so docile as a Cherokee or a 172. When that day comes, you'll be
prepared to follow the checklists and may avoid an unrecoverable mistake.

Jim Burns

"Newps" wrote in message news
The Bonanza's got a bad rap with their gear and flap handles. Now that
I've got some time in my Bo I like the gear handle on the left side. That
way rolling down the runway everything that needs adjustment is to the
left of the throw over yoke. Wing flaps, cowl flaps and trim are all
right next to each other, you never get anywhere near the gear. Stay to
the left of the yoke and you are OK.

I'm confused. Which is left of what?

A surprisingly large number of landing accidents are loss of control
after the airplane slows to about 30knots or so (often lower), which
makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

Your land based airplane has two basic modes of operation: tricycle
(forwards or backwards) and airplane. When you're flying, it's 100%
airplane, and when you're stopped, it's 100% tricycle. In between, you
get varying ratios between the two.

Because of this, as the airplane slows down (well below stall speed)
you'll get into areas where aircraft control is a little different.
Doing a full stop landing allows you to practice in this arena, but
during most T&G's, the airplane never get's that slow.

The other side is the safety related to reconfiguring the airplane on
the roll. If you're taking your eyes and concentration away from what
you're doing (flying/rolling out) bad things can happen quickly.

Just my two cents.

-Rob
www.scarylittleairplanes.org

No. I'm curious though, what is the rationale given for avoiding T&Gs?

They are more dangerous than full stops - some flying schools have had
to stop them as a condition of insurance.

They don't give the instructor undivided attention while he critiques
the landing.

They don't allow the student to practice different types of takeoff.

What do they actually achieve other than more landings per hour?

And what does that mean if you are not practicing takeoffs?

OK - my 2c

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE