Most Challenging Instrument Approaches in Western US?

Regarding Juneau (JNU) approaches: Can anyone venture to guess why the NDB
approach minimums are lower than the LDA?



"Lou Ramsay" wrote in message
...
John Harper wrote:

The answers so far seem to define challenging as "greatest risk if you
mess
up".
That's a fair definition but if you go by difficulty of execution then
the
NDB
to Siskiyou County, CA, (SIY iirc) looks like fun. I've never flown it
but
it involves
a substantial dogleg at the NDB (particularly good if there's a
crosswind)
as well as a death-defying descent rate on final.


Juneau, Alaska is no "bowl of peaches" either.

A fellow controller was riding jumpseat on a 727 a
number of years ago on a flight from Anchorage to
Seattle with intermediate stop at Juneau. The pilot
was enthused that this would be his first flight into
Juneau with VFR conditions.

There is a rather large dogleg to turn final and a
hill just slides under as you are, or just before,
making the dogleg. The Captain said that was the LAST
time he wanted to make the approach to Juneau in VFR
conditions.


Lou.

I
"Brad Z" wrote in message
news:SOw6b.378145$Ho3.57420@sccrnsc03...
Regarding Juneau (JNU) approaches: Can anyone venture to guess why the NDB
approach minimums are lower than the LDA?


I don't know but it is hard to see the airport from the missed approach
point even if visibility is unrestricted.

Mike
MU-2

Having live in Juneau for 6 years in a former life, I can say it's
got to be close to the worst conditions possible for flying. It's often
described as "landing in a fishbowl," since there's water on all sides,
and 3500' mountains within 5-10 miles on 3 sides, and within 20 miles on
the 4th side. I wasn't into private flying at the time, but did enough
missed approaches as a passenger in 737's to know it was a bitch. The
weather can move in there so even the commercial guys won't fly in for a
week or more.


Lou Ramsay wrote:
: Juneau, Alaska is no "bowl of peaches" either.
snip
: hill just slides under as you are, or just before,
: making the dogleg.

They call it "Engineer's cutoff" in Juneau, since they cut the trees off
the top of the hill to help forward visibility on short final. That's
how close the whole approach is.


-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
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************************************************** ***********************

wrote:
Having live in Juneau for 6 years in a former life, I can say it's
got to be close to the worst conditions possible for flying. It's often
described as "landing in a fishbowl," since there's water on all sides,
and 3500' mountains within 5-10 miles on 3 sides, and within 20 miles on
the 4th side. I wasn't into private flying at the time, but did enough
missed approaches as a passenger in 737's to know it was a bitch. The
weather can move in there so even the commercial guys won't fly in for a
week or more.
snip
They call it "Engineer's cutoff" in Juneau, since they cut the trees off
the top of the hill to help forward visibility on short final. That's
how close the whole approach is.

As an illustration of Cory's description, here's a photo of the general
vicinity from several miles out on the extended centerline of RWY 8.
Engineer's Cutoff is in the foreground:

http://www.visi.com/~rma/jnu_approach/Image2.jpg

The actual approach course is off to the right in that photo, resulting in
the previously mentioned dogleg to final. Here's a shot pretty much on the
course, just before making that turn. Actually, we were a little to the
left and low. The resolution is poor, but you might be able to make out the
offset VASI (red on red in this shot...). It's more or less aligned with
the divided highway in distance.

http://www.visi.com/~rma/jnu_approach/Image4.jpg

Here's what short final looks like:

http://www.visi.com/~rma/jnu_approach/Image6.jpg

Nice prospect for a missed, huh?

I remember once seeing an approach in which the altitude for the FAF was
the same as the MDA (i.e., the plan view was flat, perhaps due to rising
terrain). Unfortunately I can not remember which approach this was. Does
anyone know which approach I am talking about. I am trying to find it again.
I think it was in MT or WY but I am not sure.

J. Hansen ) wrote:

I remember once seeing an approach in which the altitude for the FAF was
the same as the MDA (i.e., the plan view was flat, perhaps due to rising
terrain). Unfortunately I can not remember which approach this was. Does
anyone know which approach I am talking about. I am trying to find it again.
I think it was in MT or WY but I am not sure.

Awhile back I discovered this NDB/DME or GPS-A approach at Hailey/Friedman
Memorial (KSUN), UT.

Not sure if it the one to which you refer but it does have similar
features:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../SUN_nd_gA.pdf

--
Peter












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"Peter R." wrote in message news:MPG.19d106968fc7815c989800@text-
Not sure if it the one to which you refer but it does have similar
features:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../SUN_nd_gA.pdf

Not only is the plan flat (2700 above the runway), but the MAP is 5.3 miles away from the runway!

Ron Natalie wrote:
"Peter R." wrote in message
news:MPG.19d106968fc7815c989800@text-

Not sure if it the one to which you refer but it does have similar
features:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../SUN_nd_gA.pdf


Not only is the plan flat (2700 above the runway), but the MAP is 5.3
miles away from the runway!

Ketchikan, AK, ILS/DME-1 RWY 11 is almost as interesting. No turns
permitted past 8 DME inbound. The MAP is 2.7 miles from the threshold.
Notes include "CAUTION: Do not permit full scale CDI deflection. Rising
terrain both sides of final approach. Strong winds may cause severe
turbulence. During VMC watch for opposing traffic on localizer course." And
"Any go-around commenced after passing the missed approach point will not
provide standard obstruction clearance."

Peter R. wrote in message ...
J. Hansen ) wrote:

I remember once seeing an approach in which the altitude for the FAF was
the same as the MDA (i.e., the plan view was flat, perhaps due to rising
terrain). Unfortunately I can not remember which approach this was. Does
anyone know which approach I am talking about. I am trying to find it again.
I think it was in MT or WY but I am not sure.

Awhile back I discovered this NDB/DME or GPS-A approach at Hailey/Friedman
Memorial (KSUN), UT.

Not sure if it the one to which you refer but it does have similar
features:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../SUN_nd_gA.pdf

Thanks. I'm not sure if this is the same one I saw, but this one is
pretty good too.

Jeff

(J. Hansen) writes:
Peter R. wrote
J. Hansen ) wrote:

I remember once seeing an approach in which the altitude for the FAF was
the same as the MDA (i.e., the plan view was flat, perhaps due to rising
terrain). Unfortunately I can not remember which approach this was. Does
anyone know which approach I am talking about. I am trying to find it again.
I think it was in MT or WY but I am not sure.

Awhile back I discovered this NDB/DME or GPS-A approach at Hailey/Friedman
Memorial (KSUN), UT.

Not sure if it the one to which you refer but it does have similar
features:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../SUN_nd_gA.pdf

Thanks. I'm not sure if this is the same one I saw, but this one is
pretty good too.

I recall that the VOR approach to Jefferson County Airport in the
Denver area has minimums higher than VFR minimums. Probably has
something to do with the rocks to the west of the airport...