Attitude indicators

On 09 Dec 2003 23:39:51 -0800, Angus Duggan
wrote:

Roger Halstead writes:
The photos aren't the best, but they show the difference.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/gauges.htm

All fixed! I hope.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers


Roger,
The text on the web page says they show a "nose up attitude and
slight bank to the left". Surely you mean a "slight bank to the right"? If it
really is a slight bank to the left, I'm not surprised that there were
accidents changing to and from these gauges. I personally think that there is
no "right" answer for the inside/outside perception thing, but that it's like
track up/north up on maps. I find north up more intuitive, but I also find
the inside-out AI more intuitive than the outside-in turn coordinator.

a.

"R&A Kyle" wrote in message ...
A typical AI display is "inside out", ie the view is from inside the plane
looking out. Some (Russian) aircraft use the reverse display, ie a fixed
horizon and a moving airplane graphic. Does anyone know of work done to
measure the human factors benefits / penalties of these two approaches?

This wasn't uncommon in early instrument work. As a matter of fact, the
Buddy Holly/Big Bopper/Richy Valens crash was blamed in part on the
fact that the aircraft had an Sperry Attitude Gyro (fixed horizon moving
airplane) where the pilot's experience had been on the more conventional
artificial horizon.

-Ron

"R&A Kyle" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
A typical AI display is "inside out", ie the view is from inside the plane
looking out. Some (Russian) aircraft use the reverse display, ie a fixed
horizon and a moving airplane graphic. Does anyone know of work done to
measure the human factors benefits / penalties of these two approaches?

Exactly this problem was one of the causes of the Crossair flight LX498
crash in Zurich on January 10th, 2000. It was a Saab 340 aircraft. The pilot
was moldavian and had lots of experience in russian airplanes with "reverse
AIs". By the way, russian planes partially also have reverse gyros.

For those who are interested, the investigation report (PDF) can be found
at:
http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/u1781_e
There's a discussion about the reverse AI at 1.16.5.1.1 (pages 59-62) and at
Annex 7 (page 134).

Besides that, it's really an interesting report, and if you want to invest a
couple of hours, read it.

-Manuel
PPL(A) SEP




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On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:46:01 +0100, "Manuel"
wrote:

"R&A Kyle" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
A typical AI display is "inside out", ie the view is from inside the plane
looking out. Some (Russian) aircraft use the reverse display, ie a fixed

My Debonair had the reverse display as original.
I did have some photos up on the web, but eventaully took them down. I
updated the DG early on to the modern style.

If any one want's to see what they look like I can easily put them
back...if I can find the photos.

horizon and a moving airplane graphic. Does anyone know of work done to
measure the human factors benefits / penalties of these two approaches?

I didn't note a lot of difference and it was easy to get used to, BUT
I did not have to use it under difficult and/or stressful
circumstances where you tend to revert to what you are used to using.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers


Exactly this problem was one of the causes of the Crossair flight LX498
crash in Zurich on January 10th, 2000. It was a Saab 340 aircraft. The pilot
was moldavian and had lots of experience in russian airplanes with "reverse
AIs". By the way, russian planes partially also have reverse gyros.

As did at least some of our early WWII fighters.



For those who are interested, the investigation report (PDF) can be found
at:
http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/u1781_e
There's a discussion about the reverse AI at 1.16.5.1.1 (pages 59-62) and at
Annex 7 (page 134).

Besides that, it's really an interesting report, and if you want to invest a
couple of hours, read it.

-Manuel
PPL(A) SEP




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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 20:40:56 GMT, Roger Halstead
wrote:

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:46:01 +0100, "Manuel"
wrote:

"R&A Kyle" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
A typical AI display is "inside out", ie the view is from inside the plane
looking out. Some (Russian) aircraft use the reverse display, ie a fixed

My Debonair had the reverse display as original.
I did have some photos up on the web, but eventaully took them down. I
updated the DG early on to the modern style.

If any one want's to see what they look like I can easily put them
back...if I can find the photos.

I updated the photos and uploaded the htm file so for any one that is
interested here are a couple of good shots of the old style, "outside
looking in" AI
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/gauges.htm

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers